The Ebay "Fraudulant" Listing Thread!

seanh303

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Edit: I'm gonna cool the jets and think about this some...perhaps not as bad as I first thought upon discovering this. Basically I bought from a seller that bought used and probably cleaned them up. No big deal, but I feel that his listings were pretty deceptive.
So here's the deal. I see this auction for an ES-446 that looks pristine, and is described as "New" and "Mint".
Here's the guitar he had listed:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-2000-Gibson-Custom-Shop-ES-446-CHERRY-RED-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar-ES-335-/190780518804?pt=Guitar&hash=item2c6b67b194&nma=true&si=AVVc33W0Nl4Z/EllxqSwOZ07o0c=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
And here's the auction where he got the guitar. The seller that bought the guitar was o***t, some private hidden account.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-Custom-Shop-ES446-Electric-Guitar-Cherry-Red-RARE-Mint-Original-Case-/251200462605

And another:
Original listing that o***t bought the guitar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIBSON-ES-446-BLONDE-ALL-ORIGINAL-GIBSON-CUSTOM-SHOP-JAZZ-MORE-/321042828877?pt=Guitar&hash=item4abfa4ce4d&nma=true&si=AVVc33W0Nl4Z/EllxqSwOZ07o0c=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
And now the listing where music_garage has it for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-GIBSON-Custom-Shop-ES-446-NATURAL-BLONDE-Les-Paul-Electric-Guitar-ES335-/370736770033?pt=Guitar&hash=item5651a22bf1
Both of these guitars are being sold as "As close to new as you can get" and "Mint". Both of these guitars look super clean, and to be honest, I would have no problem buying them if the seller was honest about what he'd done. I was pretty furious 10 minutes ago...but maybe it's not as bad as I thought....I still feel the listings are pretty deceitful.
 

BillB1960

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WARNING! Don't make the same mistake I did!

I bought a guitar from this guy on Ebay. In fact, I've paid him, but he hasn't shipped it yet. I just sent him an e-mail and told him NOT to ship it and to refund my money, and I sure as hell hope I get it back pronto.

So here's the deal. I see this auction for an ES-446 that looks pristine, and is described as "New" and "Mint". I paid too much for it, but it looked great. I got to doing some research of some old listings, and find the VERY guitar sold a couple weeks earlier, in much worse shape. The guy obviously refinned it, jacked the price up a grand, and lied his ass off about the condition, obviously failing to mention all he had done to it.

His name is "George" from the "Music Garage". I believe this is his website too: Music Garage - Professional Music Rehearsal Facility
The Paypal e-mail I have is: music_garage@comcast.net
Phone #: 904-294-7372

So here's the guitar he had listed:
Mint 2000 Gibson Custom Shop ES 446 Cherry Red Les Paul Electric Guitar ES 335 | eBay

And here's the auction where he got the guitar. The seller that bought the guitar was o***t, some private hidden account.
Gibson Custom Shop ES446 Electric Guitar Cherry Red RARE Mint with Original Case | eBay

As you can see, it's the same serial number. If you look at the finish wear on the "f" hole by the pickguard, you can still see where that same spot is worn on the refinned guitar.

So then, check this out...today, I see another ES-446 posted, and this is how I caught on THANK GOD. Same freakin' thing!
Original listing that o***t bought the guitar:
Gibson ES 446 Blonde All Original Gibson Custom Shop Jazz More | eBay

And now the listing where music_garage has it for sale:
1999 Gibson Custom Shop ES 446

Obviously, you can see that these two guitars also have the EXACT SAME serial number. If you look close, you can also see where some of the spots that are obviously worn on the case in the original listing are still worn in the new listing, just much harder to tell.

Both of these guitars are being sold as "Like New" and "Mint", yet in both of the original listings you can see they are FAR from that condition. This George guy has some really clean stuff for sale, and I can only imagine what they looked like before he got his hands on them! Both of these guitars look super clean, and to be honest, I would have no problem buying them if the seller was honest about what he'd done. But he listed each for $1000 more than what he paid, and is blatantly lying about their state of preservation. What a scam!
This is why there are rules on this forum against trashing other parties in a 2 party transaction. Your entire post is absolute bullshit. You're pissed off because you paid too much for a guitar. Cry me a river. The seller obviously makes money from flipping gear. He buys at a good price, cleans them up and resells at a higher price. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism. If you don't like the price of the guitar then don't buy it but spare us your whining about paying too much then having buyers remorse. Nobody cares.

Both of those guitars in the original auctions said they were "mint". The original sellers were just too lazy or not smart enough to clean them up before they sold them. The person who bought them cleaned them up and resold them and you bought one. Just pay the man, you bought it. But no you would rather post on this forum about how he's scamming you. What a crock!
 

upl8tr

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anybody who attempts to buy from that seller deserves to get scammed. Obviously not on the level.
^ Piss-poor attitude you have there, no one ever "deserves to get scammed".
:rolleyes:
 

seanh303

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This is why there are rules on this forum against trashing other parties in a 2 party transaction. Your entire post is absolute bullshit. You're pissed off because you paid too much for a guitar. Cry me a river. The seller obviously makes money from flipping gear. He buys at a good price, cleans them up and resells at a higher price. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism. If you don't like the price of the guitar then don't buy it but spare us your whining about paying too much then having buyers remorse. Nobody cares.

Both of those guitars in the original auctions said they were "mint". The original sellers were just too lazy or not smart enough to clean them up before they sold them. The person who bought them cleaned them up and resold them and you bought one. Just pay the man, you bought it. But no you would rather post on this forum about how he's scamming you. What a crock!
Yeah I see how it came off that way. It's honestly probably not as bad as I thought...good thing this is a place for oppinions and feedback.

Look man, a guitar that had signatures removed with Acetone is not "New Other". I actually think I could be very happy with the guitar still. Looking at picture #5 of the original listing, it looked like the finish was worn to bare wood, which is why I thought it was refinned, but it actually looks like it was the camera flash.

I have NO problem whatsoever with someone cleaning something up, but why not represent it as such? And why have an account you buy used stuff with, and a seperate one you sell it with? The original listing for the natural finish one clearly states "used" and "NOT mint" due to scratches and checking. Of course that can buff out fine especially in the right hands, but why not say "had some scratches and checking that buffed out great" rather than "as close to new as you can get". You don't see a problem with that?
 

BillB1960

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Yeah I see how it came off that way. It's honestly probably not as bad as I thought...good thing this is a place for oppinions and feedback.

Look man, a guitar that had signatures removed with Acetone is not "New Other". I actually think I could be very happy with the guitar still. Looking at picture #5 of the original listing, it looked like the finish was worn to bare wood, which is why I thought it was refinned, but it actually looks like it was the camera flash.

I have NO problem whatsoever with someone cleaning something up, but why not represent it as such? And why have an account you buy used stuff with, and a seperate one you sell it with? The original listing for the natural finish one clearly states "used" and "NOT mint" due to scratches and checking. Of course that can buff out fine especially in the right hands, but why not say "had some scratches and checking that buffed out great" rather than "as close to new as you can get". You don't see a problem with that?
No I really don't see any problems with any of the listings. I don't think it's the seller's responsibility to give a whole history of the guitar only the shape it's in now. As long as what shows up on your door is what you expected based on the description and pictures then what do you care? If you didn't know about the earlier sale would you be as pissed off?
 

dangerdog

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Edit: I'm gonna cool the jets and think about this some...perhaps not as bad as I first thought upon discovering this. Basically I bought from a seller that bought used and probably cleaned them up. No big deal, but I feel that his listings were pretty deceptive.
So here's the deal. I see this auction for an ES-446 that looks pristine, and is described as "New" and "Mint".
Here's the guitar he had listed:
Mint 2000 Gibson Custom Shop ES 446 Cherry Red Les Paul Electric Guitar ES 335 | eBay
And here's the auction where he got the guitar. The seller that bought the guitar was o***t, some private hidden account.
Gibson Custom Shop ES446 Electric Guitar Cherry Red RARE Mint with Original Case | eBay

And another:
Original listing that o***t bought the guitar:
Gibson ES 446 Blonde All Original Gibson Custom Shop Jazz More | eBay
And now the listing where music_garage has it for sale:
1999 Gibson Custom Shop ES 446
Both of these guitars are being sold as "As close to new as you can get" and "Mint". Both of these guitars look super clean, and to be honest, I would have no problem buying them if the seller was honest about what he'd done. I was pretty furious 10 minutes ago...but maybe it's not as bad as I thought....I still feel the listings are pretty deceitful.
People buy things for LESS than they sell them for. That is how business works.
I am sure your grocer has a pretty hefty markup but you aren't protesting him are you?
 

sonsofthedesert

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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gibson-Historic-series-1959-Les-Paul-Standard-reissue-/330863457674?pt=AU_Musical_Instruments_Instruments&hash=item4d08ffb58a

This seller has this guitar listed in his description as a Braz board R9, even though it is NOT.
He even had a question posted about the serial number stating it isn't a Braz?:shock:
If he thought it is then why such a low price for a Braz then?
Trying to confuse a novice buyer me thinks?
He has also laughingly stated that Steve Mud.. er Jackson claimed it was braz in 2004?:wow:
Sent him message about the B.S, hope somebody doesn't get scammed or think they are getting a bargain!
 

truckermde

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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gibson-Historic-series-1959-Les-Paul-Standard-reissue-/330863457674?pt=AU_Musical_Instruments_Instruments&hash=item4d08ffb58a

This seller has this guitar listed in his description as a Braz board R9, even though it is NOT.
He even had a question posted about the serial number stating it isn't a Braz?:shock:
If he thought it is then why such a low price for a Braz then?
Trying to confuse a novice buyer me thinks?
He has also laughingly stated that Steve Mud.. er Jackson claimed it was braz in 2004?:wow:
Sent him message about the B.S, hope somebody doesn't get scammed or think they are getting a bargain!
I don't see him claiming it is a Braz R9 anywhere. (OK, 1959 Reissue, I see it now...) He says it has a fingerboard made of rosewood which came from Brazil, like some of my guitars. I believe I read they (Gibson) switched to Indian rosewood in general in 1966, but actually Brazilian still showed up intermittantly depending upon supply. Differences are mostly aesthetic, according to the experts, so you can judge for yourself if you are suitably impressed with the grain on this one.

It certainly doesn't look like a fake, but I wouldn't drop $6000AU on anything I couldn't ride around town in.

IMHO, YMMV, FWIW, etc. etc. :wave:
 

sonsofthedesert

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Handy Gibson Guitars Brazilian Rosewood Guide
FYI,:fingersx:
Please read this guide concerning Gibson Historic reissue 2003 Guitars.
I don't think you are familiar with 2003 Braz board guitars collectability and prices:hmm:

When you read the guitar's ebay description then it is plain to see that the seller is misrepresenting his guitar as one of the Varified/confirmed guitars from Gibson.
Even though he has been told it isn't and even though the serial number in too high!

"You are bidding on a mint condition 2003 Gibson '59 Flametop reissue
This is one of the most accurate Flame top copies and features highly flamed AAA carved top, Brazilian rosewood fingerboard,great '59 neck profile and certificate of authenticity.
Very difficult to find from this period and in this condition."
FRAUD?:wow:
"I believe I read they (Gibson) switched to Indian rosewood in general in 1966, but actually Brazilian still showed up intermittantly depending upon supply. "
I don't know where you read this, however only confirmed/varified information from Gibson will satisfy collectors who are being asked to pay top dollar for Braz boards.:hmm:
 


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