Tesla Wins, GM is Doomed!

Olds442

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Tesla isn't helping their case by wanting to have their own proprietary charging stations while every other manufacturer is using a standardized model.
have to disagree, they are helping their case as a teslas can charge at all of the chargers. theirs, yours, mine, ionity, ev-go, and the 30A plug at the koa campground included.

also when that "standard" charging network decides to quadroopal what they sell elec at (see norway for example)?

i predict the VW charging network is going to be very expensive.
 

MikeyTheCat

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I am not being socially engineered- everyone else here is!

I believe we already purchased our last ICE vehicles.

Say what you will- and like it or not, we are just leading the way. It is just a matter of time before this spreads. And that was my original point- a perfect storm of legislative events makes this a few pen strokes from reality- anywhere.

But social engineering? Even a tariff is social engineering.

The US socially engineered widespread purchase of SUVs in recent past.

As for me, I despise the hypocrisy- where they place an undue burden on the individual— while we pump gas and oil like there is no tomorrow. I travel a ton for work- and it is just a matter of time before that will be a problem.
No offense, but if Norwegians want to go electric then they don’t need any incentives or disincentives to do so, but that’s not what is happening. I understand that Norway has polluted air in its cities partly because of transportation but also because of burning wood, but Wouldn’t it make more sense to ban that first?
 

lancpudn

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I agree, it will be a new and worse way to soak people for more money.

Now to the dead batteries...
That shit is toxic. The plastics, the electrolytes, the plates, all of it. Gotta dump it somewhere. Or use more energy and toxic shit to "reclaim" them for ever decreasing periods of service life.

Freeze them? Cryogenics? Sorry, that costs energy TOO.

ALL recycling eventually comes to the point where the energy cost gets higher than it is worth, and then you have to dump that shit somewhere.
They definitely wont be going into a landfill here, The cost of dumping stuff into landfill is extremely prohibitive here. Cryogenics is a bargain compared to landfill costs here.

There's no doubting they will need gigafactory size plants to recycle battery packs, neutralise the chemistry & recover the precious metals in them there's no doubt, but they wont end up dumped in UK landfill, way too expensive here.
 

lancpudn

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Everything about the batteries is horrible. Minerals to manufacturing to the disposal, its not good. Not to mention the fire issues, when they get lit
And oil/ petrol is different how?
 

Hamtone

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And oil/ petrol is different how?
Both gets reclaimed or used. Batteries no matter if theyre flat or not still are toxic. Used oil gets reclaimed and re used, eventually.
 

DotStudio

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I agree, it will be a new and worse way to soak people for more money.

Now to the dead batteries...
That shit is toxic. The plastics, the electrolytes, the plates, all of it. Gotta dump it somewhere. Or use more energy and toxic shit to "reclaim" them for ever decreasing periods of service life.

Freeze them? Cryogenics? Sorry, that costs energy TOO.

ALL recycling eventually comes to the point where the energy cost gets higher than it is worth, and then you have to dump that shit somewhere.
Just throw it in Yucca Mountain with the nukes.
 

SteveC

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It is just a matter of time before this spreads. And that was my original point- a perfect storm of legislative events makes this a few pen strokes from reality- anywhere.
And, in around 100 years (maybe) it will be commonplace as ICE is today. Maybe.

As for me, I despise the hypocrisy- where they place an undue burden on the individual— while we pump gas and oil like there is no tomorrow. I travel a ton for work- and it is just a matter of time before that will be a problem.
Again, in around 100 years, maybe longer, before it even comes close to being a problem. EV's are not going to be become ubiquitous any time soon. Not in your lifetime, or mine. There is still a lot of engineering and infrastructure required before that happens.


And, we haven't even touched on the power & greed of all the industries around ICE. You really think they are all going to sit down around the table, eating bento-boxes of kale, and simply walk away from all that money? Really?

Kumbuya is nice. Reality is different.
 

filtersweep

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No offense, but if Norwegians want to go electric then they don’t need any incentives or disincentives to do so, but that’s not what is happening. I understand that Norway has polluted air in its cities partly because of transportation but also because of burning wood, but Wouldn’t it make more sense to ban that first?
The UK is banning wood burning stoves in some places. But the real polluters here are the cruise ships that idle all day downtown. I say get rid of them. They are mostly filled with tourists who think everything is too expensive here.

Regarding pollution, we get driving bans occasionally in the winter-- but none of this enviro-fascism is really driven by genuine concern about our well-being, or even the local environment. It is collective guilt about being an oil producer. Nobody elsewhere in the world really cares what Norway does.... or even knows we exist. It is all about 'carbon foot print'--- regardless of all the ways it can be off-set. Ironic when most of the country is covered by trees.

In other news, some poor dude had to remove the solar panels from his roof, because he didn't get the proper approval, and the neighbors complained.

Meanwhile my 10 year old daughter acts like I am a terrorist when I start the fireplace..... one of our three fireplaces.
 

Hamtone

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The UK is banning wood burning stoves in some places. But the real polluters here are the cruise ships that idle all day downtown. I say get rid of them. They are mostly filled with tourists who think everything is too expensive here.

Regarding pollution, we get driving bans occasionally in the winter-- but none of this enviro-fascism is really driven by genuine concern about our well-being, or even the local environment. It is collective guilt about being an oil producer. Nobody elsewhere in the world really cares what Norway does.... or even knows we exist. It is all about 'carbon foot print'--- regardless of all the ways it can be off-set. Ironic when most of the country is covered by trees.

In other news, some poor dude had to remove the solar panels from his roof, because he didn't get the proper approval, and the neighbors complained.

Meanwhile my 10 year old daughter acts like I am a terrorist when I start the fireplace..... one of our three fireplaces.
The whole carbon foot print thing is ridic. and teaching kids that is ludicrous. Want to clean the air? Plant more trees.

The earth isnt going to run out of oil, and carbon is not an issue, especially in Norway or anywhere else in Scandinavia
 

Bill Hicklin

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bring that poor camaro over any time. or the bmw or C63.

bring the titles too.
Depends how twisty the course is. The Tesla has warp-drive acceleration, but very ordinary brakes and suspension (no, regenerative braking is no match for a set of racing discs and calipers)
 

Bill Hicklin

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Meanwhile my 10 year old daughter acts like I am a terrorist when I start the fireplace..... one of our three fireplaces.
Something that should absolutely terrify anyone in the western world is the indoctrination of our children in the schools, every bit as much as the 3rd Reich, USSR or North Korea did.
 

Olds442

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Depends how twisty the course is. The Tesla has warp-drive acceleration, but very ordinary brakes and suspension (no, regenerative braking is no match for a set of racing discs and calipers)
any day, any time. :D
 

Olds442

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When F-150’s are purely electric and can haul tons of cargo for hundreds of miles without a recharge, I’ll expect to see the sky full of flying pigs.
So next year?
 

wildhawk1

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maybe we are saving money.

AMG C63, 0-60 in 3.7 sec = $70k - $80k
BMW M3, 0-60 in 3.9 sec = $70k - $80k

Dual Motor Model 3, 0-60 in 3.5 sec = $49k
Performance Model 3, 0-60 in 2.9 sec = $57k

it just depends on what we're comparing. :cheers:
I'm comparing what would be considered normal daily drivers for the average person vs. your example.

Camry range 500 miles and five minute refuel times from empty.

Tesla range and recharge time from empty?


And.....

Let's remember almost all EV vehicles on the road today are still under warranty. That in itself is a big reason for all the fanboy mentality.

Wait a few years when the owners have to start paying the bill. Haha

$8000 brake jobs and $1000 door handles have been documented by owners on their base model S.

When Elon says, "Let me hear you squeal like a pig" we'll see how much love there is.
 

Olds442

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I'm comparing what would be considered normal daily drivers for the average person vs. your example.
1 - Camry range 500 miles and five minute refuel times from empty.
2 - Tesla range and recharge time from empty?
3 - $8000 brake jobs and $1000 door handles have been documented by owners on their base model S.
4 - When Elon says, "Let me hear you squeal like a pig" we'll see how much love there is.
my example is no less valid though. some people buy based on performance.
1 - i don't really see a camry as competition to the model 3, and most camry drivers aren't going over 300 miles per day, so it's doesn't matter.
2 - doesn't matter either. i don't go over 300 miles per day and i charge overnight at home.
3 - my local mechanic does brakes, if i don't do them myself.
4 - let's just keep him from dancing, that's far more important.
 

dspelman

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But electric vehicles use up more carbon to build than regular vehicles. They also rely on fossil fuel burning power plants for the electricity required to charge their batteries. I'd say that the people buying into the electric vehicle hype have been influenced by false data in making their decisions to go 100% electric. A better option would be a hybrid like a prius...and it pains me to say that. :rofl:
A lot depends on technology. Lamborghini is currently working with another manufacturer to use capacitors instead of batteries to store electricity. Faster charging, lighter, less exotic materials, less heat, etc. Electric vehicles don't use more carbon to build necessarily. They don't rely on fossil fuel burning power plants if they're running off solar or wind or hydroelectric or thermal. The Tesla home battery setups (usually running off some kind of solar) charge both batteries (for the home) and cars. If that kind of tech runs supercharger stations, you've much reduced emissions.
 




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