Tailpiece mystery

E.T.

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I just swapped a bridge and tailpiece out. Nothing major, just a stock mod 2000s Ping Works Nashville for like and a nickel plated tailpiece for a chrome plated one (both have identical masses at 3.1oz.). Here are the results, first the nickel plated tailpiece and old bridge a few days ago:

Nashville NTPBN.png


and the newer bridge (with slighty deeper saddle slots) and chrome plated tailpiece:

Nashville CTPBN.png


As you can see, somehow I am now getting a TON more subharmonics. A 6dB boost is literally 100x more..

Obviously the depth of the saddle notches couldn't possibly have had any effect on vibration transmission, the fact that I may have adjusted the pickups a little and played the strings for a few hours between spectra can't have had any effect at all either, and the changes in temperature, humidity, air pressure and so forth can't have been factors as the guitar is made of mahogany which as we all know is encased in magicks (in the form of wine red nitrocellulose) and so completely unaffected by the environment in which it is immersed.

I thus conclude thus that chrome plating has superior tone to nickel plating.

DAMN THAT CORK SMELLS GOOD!!
:cool2:
 

Dogbreath

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Chrome plating varies between a Rockwell hardness of 60-70, whereas nickel is only 20. I’m not an expert but maybe the difference in hardness would explain your observation.
 

Dogbreath

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Here's something that shows what a tailpiece change can do. I have a 1965 Melody Maker with the original compensated tailpiece that is designed for a wound G string. I decided to try a Mojoaxe replica with compensation for a plain G string. I put it on the other day and the huge difference wasn't the improved G string intonation but the huge improvement in tone. Even acoustically, the guitar rings out louder and more musical than before. And I didn't change strings. My MM has a short Vibrola and I was able to slip the old one off and the new one on under the strings.
 

E.T.

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Chrome plating varies between a Rockwell hardness of 60-70, whereas nickel is only 20. I’m not an expert but maybe the difference in hardness would explain your observation.
A intriguing proposition.. I may have to swap the tailpiece back and do another check.. At present I'm pretty much 100% convinced it's the pickup adjustment and better seating of the strings on the bridge, though.

EDIT: In truth, definitely to do with those things. No discernable difference between the two tailpieces when re-tested under the same conditions. Bang goes my Nobel prize! :doh:

Now do a bigsby! This is cool af

-chris
Funnily enough I was thinking about getting one yesterday evening, but all the sensibly priced ones on Reverb are left-handed :facepalm:
 
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Davey Rock

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BUT THE COMPUTER PROGRAM IS CHANGING YOUR TONE!!!!

THE WOOD OR HARDWARE WILL NEVER CHANGE TONE!!!!

IF YOU DONT BUY A GIBSON MADE BEFORE 69 THEN IT ISNT REAL!!!

UNLESS YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL TRUSS ROD COVER THE TONE WONT SOUND RIGHT!!!!

STRINGS MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE BUT THE BODY MATERIAL DOESNT!!!!!

SCARF JOINTS SUCK!!!

NORLINS GUITAR MODELS SUCK SO BAD THAT IT GAVE ME PURPLE HICKYS!!!

MALMSTEEN HAS NO FEEL!!!!

METAL IS JUST SCREAMING IN A MICROPHONE!!!!!

THE MUSIC IS GREAT BUT NOT THE VOCALS!!!!!

(Insert self conscious person who hates on everything he has never tried)
 

Cjsinla

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I assume you’re kidding about how adjusting the pickups had no effect on the tone.
 

01GT Eibach

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Can I request some details on what that is frequency analysis of?
 

E.T.

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Can I request some details on what that is frequency analysis of?
You may- I sort of have a standard procedure whereby I strum an E major chord in the root position into a Boss RC-3, then dump the resulting WAV into Audacity for analysis. The spectra above are of the chord with the switch in the middle position.
 

01GT Eibach

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You may- I sort of have a standard procedure whereby I strum an E major chord in the root position into a Boss RC-3, then dump the resulting WAV into Audacity for analysis. The spectra above are of the chord with the switch in the middle position.
Makes sense, and thank you for the info -- My only question is if you see the same frequency responses regardless of your "attack" (i.e., light strum vs hard strum)?
 

E.T.

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As it turns out, sort of. Gentle strum (L) vs. regular strum (R):

Gentle.png
Regular.png


Log scales mean it's more obvious if amplified to the same maximum- you can see the harmonics between the fundamentals start to become more prevalent:

Amplified gentle.png
Amplified regular.png


If you smash an E major, the 12Hz subharmonic (some kind of timber resonance maybe) basically just vanishes and gets swamped by 40Hz (the octave below the root note)*:

Digin.png


Also FWIW I'm, using a 2004 Deluxe strung with (I think) D'addario XL 10s.
 
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mrblooze

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As it turns out, sort of. Gentle strum (L) vs. regular strum (R):

View attachment 563420 View attachment 563419

Log scales mean it's more obvious if amplified to the same maximum- you can see the harmonics between the fundamentals start to become more prevalent:

View attachment 563423 View attachment 563422

If you smash an E major, the 12Hz subharmonic (some kind of timber resonance maybe) basically just vanishes and gets swamped by 40Hz (the octave below the root note):

View attachment 563421

Also FWIW I'm, using a 2004 Deluxe strung with (I think) D'addario XL 10s.
Way cool experiment, thanks for sharing! I know that it's impossible to reproduce exactly the same strum each time, but I think that if you stum it close to the same way several times and look at the series of results, you can get a fair impression from an average.

I'd be interested is seeing a series done showing the changes from a pickup set close to the strings, then backing off with each new capture by a specific number of turns.

Again, magnets vary on strength, so if your pickup under test was, say, a 490, this wouldn't prove that they'd all show the same spectral changes, but--- I think it would be a valid demo of how the magnetic field dampening effect that many have spoken of (and many have scoffed at) interacts with the pickup height.

Again, very cool. Thanks!
 

E.T.

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Way cool experiment, thanks for sharing! I know that it's impossible to reproduce exactly the same strum each time, but I think that if you stum it close to the same way several times and look at the series of results, you can get a fair impression from an average.

I'd be interested is seeing a series done showing the changes from a pickup set close to the strings, then backing off with each new capture by a specific number of turns.

Again, magnets vary on strength, so if your pickup under test was, say, a 490, this wouldn't prove that they'd all show the same spectral changes, but--- I think it would be a valid demo of how the magnetic field dampening effect that many have spoken of (and many have scoffed at) interacts with the pickup height.

Again, very cool. Thanks!
No worries :cool2: Averaging several sets of results would be easy enough in theory using a spreadsheet, but it's surprising how quickly the old lappie gets clogged with all the data. Bad science, I know..

From experience adjusting individual polepieces there's definitely a sweet spot before you get that nasty fartiness from string pull, but I've only really found it to be the case with with my A-VIII loaded P-90s and fat strings. With lighter sets and half as many weaker magnets in the humbuckers I have I feel like I get the strings physically rattling against the polepieces / pickups before it becomes an issue, but I have yet to commit either phenomenon to WAV.. I'll get around to it sooner or later!
 

E.T.

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@mrblooze Welp, I got bored..
Wavesml.png
Spectrasml.png


No significant reduction in decay overall even with strings vibrating against polepieces, but does seem like the signal gets slightly brighter as distance is decreased, maybe as the bass strings start to experience some damping.

* The subharmonics, it turns out, are excited by the pick attack and disappear completely sometime before 400ms.
 
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ColdCobra

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Cool experiment.
Is it obvious how the harmonics affect the audible signal? I.e. can you hear the difference?
 

E.T.

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I'd say so, but it's not night and day even between the first and penultimate samples (with there being rattle against the polepiecess as mentioned in the last sample). That said this is where these things become subjective to some degree, so Here's 5mm distance in the left ear, 2.35mm distance in the right ear (assuming I exported it right).
 


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