Stradivarius: Another Tone Myth Debunked?

[No. 44]

We've all heard about "old wood" and "vintage tone". Well, it seems they've done a blind test comparing violins made by Stradivari and Guarneri to modern instruments. The results could be interesting for "tone snobs" and "cork sniffers"...

Double-Blind Violin Test: Can You Pick The Strad? : Deceptive Cadence : NPR

 

[Rich]

Curtin says of the 17 players who were asked to choose which were old Italians, "Seven said they couldn't, seven got it wrong, and only three got it right."

Seems about right. I find that most guitar players can't hear the differences that they believe they can either - even when those differences are obvious.

 

[teame1]

I'm not surprised.
I wonder how many of the violinists had ever played a strad.
Also I wonder whether enough music pieces of the right type were chosen.
The strad doesn't get it's reputation just based on age and maker alone.
Strads were made for centuries but only a small group have the mega price tags.
A lot of these could be fakes as faking was going on long before the chinese.

The mega money strads are only going to make a marginal difference over other well made violins..........even new ones.

So although interesting and not original, as these tests have been carried out before, I don't think they prove anything.

I wonder who the professional violinists were. I doubt they managed to get the a-class players from the classical world to compete.

Long live cork-sniffing / next

 

[Alvinfan]

I also saw that today in a Danish newspaper and must say that I am not surprised. I am sure it would be the same result with a Burst and remember that for electric guitars ( especially solidbody ) you also have the amp and pedals in the equasion.
Still the brain is a very complex organ and I am sure that you can trick it to honestly believing that a guitar sounds out of this World if you know it costs 400 K. I have to admit I have never played a Burst myself, but generally the ones I have seen demoed on the internet have not been impressive - some of the players have however

 

[River]

I thought it was debunked some time ago. I've been reading the Tonefreaks, Vintage, and Historic sections, and posting my own blind sound tests, for years now under that assumption. Not that I mind the reminder.

The human ear is just as creative as the human eye, complete with attached brain and ego. Not a very reliable measuring device, yet we put our complete faith in it.

 

[Rich]

I thought it was debunked some time ago. I've been reading the Tonefreaks, Vintage, and Historic sections, and posting my own blind sound tests, for years now under that assumption. Not that I mind the reminder.

The human ear is just as creative as the human eye, complete with attached brain and ego. Not a very reliable measuring device, yet we put our complete faith in it.

I beg to differ.

 

[River]

I beg to differ.

I know a couple of freaks of nature who make remarkable exceptions to the rule.

 

[AngryHatter]

Tone wood!

 

[EEF13]

Who cares?

I would love to own one or play one or both. Imagine playing one and you feel the history behind it. That beats tone in my opinion.

 

[Mike-t]

I think the best argument I heard regarding old wood in instruments is that most of the tone people are trying to recreate with them was created when they were nearly brand new.

 

[AngryHatter]

Who cares?

I would love to own one or play one or both. Imagine playing one and you feel the history behind it. That beats tone in my opinion.

The go outside and pet a tree.
There are many examples hundreds of years in age.

Oh, and I got it right.
The blind test.

 

[ReWind James]

I wonder if there's a "Strad" forum out there somewhere where players buy modern replicas of old Italian violins and replace the bridge, tuners, etc. with vintage versions or craft-made high quality replicas.

 

[ToneasaurusRex]

Somebody beat me to it . . . and I'm glad No. 44 posted this. As soon as I read the story, I thought of 1958-60 Les Pauls. I would love to see a similar experiment done comparing current Les Pauls with vintage guitars with price tags in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Peace

Rex

 

[EEF13]

The go outside and pet a tree.
There are many examples hundreds of years in age.

Oh, and I got it right.
The blind test.

It's not the wood. It's imagining how it was made by the builder. Who played it. Imagine if one of those violins belonged to a musician who performed in front of an old king.

 

[Sinster]

Don't like it. They need at least 5 sound clips.. Not a 50/50.

 

[Mike-t]

Don't like it. They need at least 5 sound clips.. Not a 50/50.

The two sound clips were for the sake of the story and have no bearing on the actual scientific test.

 

[Nicky]

My conducting professor owned a Stradavari. He was the concertmaster of the Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra when he was twenty years old, and retired years later to teach orchestra at my University. I got to hold and play it (sweating bullets - God help me if I dropped it!). He insisted that one can tell the difference when actually playing it for as long as he did...the feel, the vibrations when you are connected to the instrument. My professor said there were many older and modern instruments that sounded as good, but did not have "the feel" of an exquisite Stradivari. That was the opinion of someone who played the same instrument for 50 years. Don't think a blind test with just a few minutes with an instrument can reveal such attributes.

 

[bertzie]

My conducting professor owned a Stradavari. He was the concertmaster of the Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra when he was twenty years old, and retired years later to teach orchestra at my University. I got to hold and play it (sweating bullets - God help me if I dropped it!). He insisted that one can tell the difference when actually playing it for as long as he did...the feel, the vibrations when you are connected to the instrument. My professor said there were many older and modern instruments that sounded as good, but did not have "the feel" of an exquisite Stradivari. That was the opinion of someone who played the same instrument for 50 years. Don't think a blind test with just a few minutes with an instrument can reveal such attributes.

That "feeling" is all psychosomatic. It can't be measured, it can't be quantified. Simply put, it's all in your head.

 

[AngryHatter]

It's not the wood. It's imagining how it was made by the builder. Who played it. Imagine if one of those violins belonged to a musician who performed in front of an old king.

The old king might have pissed on that tree!
Yeah, history can be a lot of fun.

 

[River]

Simply put, it's all in your head.

Perception is reality.