started out trying to wind a pickup with a T-top vibe and ended up with something else

scosmith

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- after winding the first bobbin I was expecting to find the DCR to be in the 3.8~3.9k range----It measured more like 4.9K ---I found that strange but went ahead and wound the second bobbin, the result was the same. What I found was the Remington #42 poly wire I bought was labelled incorrectly and was actually #43---So my plans changed and I decided to go ahead and assemble it, but with an A8 magnet ---- So I ended up with a 9.8K A8 humbucker--I have never played an A8 magnet pickup (that I know of) and while I typically like a vintage output pickup, I don't hate this pickup-----The output seems to be strong but not harsh, actually pretty warm ----it surprised me, the clean tones are really nice
 

cooljuk

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DCR isn't an indicator of output or sound. If you otherwise built a T-Top, with the correct turn counts and coil patterns, but you used smaller wire, the DCR will be higher but the pickup will sound almost exactly the same as if you had used the larger wire.

If you made a proper T-Top style pickup, put an A5 in it and you should get the sound you expected, regardless of the slightly higher DCR.

If you are hand-winding the coils and using stock parts you won't get a real T-Top or PAF sound but you can make some great pickups with a variety of voicings, regardless. Happy copper-slinging!
 

scosmith

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DCR isn't an indicator of output or sound. If you otherwise built a T-Top, with the correct turn counts and coil patterns, but you used smaller wire, the DCR will be higher but the pickup will sound almost exactly the same as if you had used the larger wire.

If you made a proper T-Top style pickup, put an A5 in it and you should get the sound you expected, regardless of the slightly higher DCR.

If you are hand-winding the coils and using stock parts you won't get a real T-Top or PAF sound but you can make some great pickups with a variety of voicings, regardless. Happy copper-slinging!


Not, hand wound---my winder controls the traverse of the wire, but to be honest I don't really know what the typical TPL and total turn count for an original Gibson T-top were so I was just taking a shot at something that might be similar---- I will swap in an A5 and see what happens ---it's fun to play around with different combinations
 

cooljuk

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Ah, very cool. I just guessed you were hand winding as most start off that way.

What type of winding machine do you have?

FWIW - there isn't "one" correct TPL, pattern, or turn count for Gibson humbuckers. ...but they were definitely not random, either.
 

scosmith

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Ah, very cool. I just guessed you were hand winding as most start off that way.

What type of winding machine do you have?

FWIW - there isn't "one" correct TPL, pattern, or turn count for Gibson humbuckers. ...but they were definitely not random, either.
The winder I have is from UK CNC Design----- I had it programmed to do 74 layers at 70TPL for a total of 5180 turns
If the wire had been #42 I think I would have ended up 7.6~7.8k range which would be in the range of a T-top ---I understand that that doesn't mean that it would have sounded like a T-top--- but, I was hoping to find out :)
 

cooljuk

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Oh, very cool. I worked with Sean when he was first getting into guitar pickup-focused winding machines to design a multi bobbin winder and helped with testing the software, too. He's a super cool dude and amazing to work with. I haven't talked with him in some years, though. This was back in 2012.

Coil pattern, winding tension, winding speed, etc. will all alter the DCR, independent of turn counts. I wouldn't dismiss the wire as being the wrong gauge, just because the DCR came out higher than you expected. I've ordered from Remington for a decade and never had a mislabeled spool.

Try winding the same coil with less tension and much slower and see if your DCR changes.
 

scosmith

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Oh, very cool. I worked with Sean when he was first getting into guitar pickup-focused winding machines to design a multi bobbin winder and helped with testing the software, too. He's a super cool dude and amazing to work with. I haven't talked with him in some years, though. This was back in 2012.

Coil pattern, winding tension, winding speed, etc. will all alter the DCR, independent of turn counts. I wouldn't dismiss the wire as being the wrong gauge, just because the DCR came out higher than you expected. I've ordered from Remington for a decade and never had a mislabeled spool.

Try winding the same coil with less tension and much slower and see if your DCR changes.

I'm convinced that it is actually #43 ----It measures .010mm smaller than my spool of #42 plain enamel wire does and I am talking about wire that hasn't been exposed to winding tension. I could see those factors altering the DCR 200~300 ohms but this is more like 1100 ohms over what would be expected. Have you experienced that large of difference before?
 
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cooljuk

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It could. I posted some figures in this thread, which later turned into a chapter in my book: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/the-misleading-nature-of-dc-resistance-in-regard-to-pickup-coils.369099/

Those are conservative figures and don't take into account any winding speed or tension differences.

Tension can drive DCR up all the way to a full open when the wire breaks, and everything in between.

Winding speed will change the shape of your coil - less like a hot dog and more like a donut, the faster you go. That takes more wire per turn to make it all the way around, especially on the outside.
 

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scosmith

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If you want to read a great book on the subject, grab a copy of James and Mario's recent publication. There are quite a few books out there but this is one of the better and more informative of the lot.

Thanks for mentioning this ---I ordered a copy ----But what about post PAF humbuckers?---There doesn't seem to be as much info out there about them.
 

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James' book goes into the changes that made the PAF different to the early Pat# and then the T-top.
But the very nature of the materials and the process becoming much more consistent makes the later pickups (and I'm talking 70's/80's) not so much of a mystery.......or an enigma.
Secondly, you yourself can easily find one of whatever you want to find out about to install/play/dissect......for comparatively not much money.......and you know that the one you buy is most likely exactly the same as every other one.

Its like a circle......save for maybe a later Zep Jimmy Page set, or making a real Norlin era guitar period accurate, a T-top is a much less desired target for purchase or detailed spec info.......especially when you can simply buy an original one.
 




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