Special II GT as "first guitar"?

[LessPol]

Hey guys, I am new here and looking for some advice from the Les Paul pro's!

I used to play guitar from about 12-17 years old, then found out my girlfriend at the time was pregnant, and sold my guitar and amp. I had only one electric guitar, a cheap Squier Strat and a little 15w Fender or Squier practice amp, and one Epiphone acoustic that was my dad's when he was a teenager (still have this acoustic).

Now that my daughter is almost 6, and in school, I have more time on my hands than I did when she was a baby, and have been strongly considering picking up the "axe" again lol.

I have messed around on the acoustic this week, and now want to buy an electric! I haven't played in like almost 7 years, so I am pretty much back to "guitar noob", and looking for a "first guitar", but I want something better than a Squier Strat/Tele....so I was looking at Epiphone Les Pauls.

The 3 that are in my price range are the Special II, Special II GT and the LP100. (basically between the Speciall II GT and the LP100...)

I know the LP100 is the slightly higher quality guitar, with individual volume and tone controls, but was intrigued by the tremolo and killpot that the GT has regardless that it only has one volume and tone control. But I have read the tremolo kills the tone you would expect compared to the standard bridge/tail.

I know there are some nice, high-end tremolo's (floyd rose, stetsbar, bigsby etc...) that supposedly dont kill the tone and tune, but how are the tremolo's on the GT?
Also, is it possible to retrofit a killpot (like from the GT's or I think the Goth's) on say a non-GT special II or on a LP100?

Also, would you suggest the more expensive LP100 over the Special II to a complete beginner? (think teenager that has never touched a guitar) Or would you suggest the good amount cheaper Special II and buy a better guitar later? Sorry for the long post guys, and looking forward to your replies!

 

[cilizal]

Hi there, is great to get back on strings. Welcome tio MLP. I have two squier strats and they are really great to practice and play.

I don´t own a LP100, but between a Special II and a LP100 I rather have the second. I like them because the front view and the controls (4 knobs) even I don´t like the bolt on neck.

Neither like the floyd rose systems or tremolos over a Les Paul, but all is about personal taste, affinities and play styles.

And yes, it is possible to fit a killpot in any axe, but you have to send it with a real good technician, because I have seen a lot of mutilated axes in order to fit this killpots.

 

[paruwi]

Out of the 3 you mentioned, the LP 100 is 'closer' to the real deal....

so my vote goes there

and

Welcome here at MLP

and welcome back to guitars

 

[Lutherie]

One more vote for the LP100. How about a used Standard? Or is that busting the budget?
And welcome back

 

[LessPol]

I really dont want to spend the money on, or feel the need for anything nicer than a special II or LP100 (studio, standard, custom) since this is basically a noobs first guitar. Maybe in a few years when I get good enough I could spring for something better (I would LOVE a Les Paul Prophecy Ex with a nice high-end tremolo and killpot....or LP100 or better with nice tremelo and kill pot)

Or, I could spend less and get the special ii gt that already has an "Epiphone vintage tremolo" and kill pot...

I love how the cheaper GT has the killpot , black hardware and a tremolo, but dont want to kill the sound due to its possible inferior tremolo (compared to the standard LP tune o matic bridge/tail or compared to a floyd rose, bigsby or stetsbar tremolo which supposedly doesnt destroy the tone of a Les Paul).

I like that the LP100 looks more like a real Les Paul, has independent tone and volume controls, and just looks better overall (other than its silver hardware - would look amazing with gold or even black hardware), but it doesn't have a killpot which I think is pretty cool, nor a tremolo which is always fun (as long as it doesn't completely destroy the sound of the Les Paul)

 

[paruwi]

LesPaul + tremolo = fail

IMO, of course

 

[LessPol]

LesPaul + tremolo = fail

IMO, of course

Even the really nice ones I always see very famous, very talented guitarists using on their Gibson Les Pauls? lol

So basically a Special II with tune o matic bridge and tail would sound better than a Special II GT with its not-so high-end tremolo?

I think the killpot is drawing me to the GT more than it's tremolo, but its still fun to mess around with, but, I think I would rather sound like a cheap Les Paul than sound like a cheap squier strat that kind of looks like a Les Paul lol.

Would it be stupid to put a nicer (better than the cheap tremolo on the GT- i.e. floyd rose or stetsbar[<really badass to me]) tremolo on an Epiphone LP100? How hard would it be to put a killpot or kill switch on an LP100? Worth it, or dumb to spend that time/money on a $250 les paul? lol (I could transfer everything to a nicer LP IF I ever bought a better one)



-edit- Or just get the cheaper GT that has the tremolo and killpot to screw around on as my first guitar, and later get a better, nicer Les Paul with more, better features and the regular tune o matic bridge/tail?

 

[Tanqueray]

Do you live near a store that carries these models? I'd play around with them and see which one tickles your fancy.

Also, it's just my own noob opinion, but you'll likely grow into wanting a more expensive guitar sooner than you think. Especially if you've got previous experience in playing. You'd be surprised at how quickly that kind of stuff comes back to you; unless you're switching from left-handed to right-handed like I did. Then it's pretty much square one in term of figuring out how to do everything.

 

[LSAR]

I had a Special 2 GT, and I wish I hadn't sold it.
The neck was almost Ibanez thin on mine, and with the satin finish it might as well have been. The kill pot was a novelty for me though, and although I never had any issues with it, I pretty much didn't touch it after the first couple of days. The trem was about what you'd expect in that price range (cheap but functional once it's set up). I don't think the guitar suffered much (if at all) tone wise from the trem. For your purposes, if you replace the tuners and get it set up right I think it'll do quite well, and there's always time to make improvements as you go.

If you go the GT route though, replacing the tuners is a requirement, as the stock ones are pretty near useless, and even more so with a trem. With the ones on there, the second you touch that trem arm, or if you play for it for a couple of minutes, you'll have to retune.

Basically, the LP-100 will get you closer to a traditional Les Paul, the Special II will get the job done, or the Special II GT will get you closer to what you're looking for further down the road, if you're willing to put a bit of work into it.

 

[rem22]

I had a LP-100.

Honestly, it's a great guitar for the price, it sounds good, knobs have some effects on tone and volume, sustain is quite good despite the bolt on neck (keep in mind that some bolt on Telecaster have great sustain....).

It felt good in hand, it's a guitar I would recommend to anyone on a budget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpfGktSZY2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy89cd2dovU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4VIoFp7InM

Don't listen to elitist guys who says only $$$$$ guitars can sound goods. The LP100 is not the better Les Paul on the market, but it's quite a decent one.
I would really have like to try some good GFS pups on mine, but I sold it to finance my Tribute +.

 

[RTH]

I cant see the tremolo on a GT being a tone or sustain killer. They use the same type of trem on Strats all day long. But if you go the Special or GT route, like stated above, you will need to change the tuners. Not only will this require more money into the guitar, but you will most likly have to bore out the tuner holes to make a decent set fit. I dont know about you, but I'm not too hip on permanent mods on a new guitar...though I have done it in the past.

Your best bet would be the LP-100, but for around the same price or a little more you could get a used Studio.

 

[TerryH]

My first LP as a an "old" beginner was an LP100, and I highly recommend it! Even tho I now have a Tribute Plus, I don't plan on letting go of the LP100.
Make sure you get a decent amp to go with it as well.
and make sure you post a NGD with pics when you decide!

 

[Tanqueray]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the LP-100, but it does have a different feel to it than other Les Pauls. I think it's the thin, light body that does it. I guess I just have a certain expectation of what a Les Paul is in terms of size, shape, and feel, that the LP-100 and Specials don't quite match.

Having said that, I don't want to discourage anyone from getting one if that's what they want to get. The ones I've played have been pretty nice.

 

[rjryerson]

As an avid Epiphone supporter and Les Paul enthusiast, I want to chime in here. My first Epiphone Les Paul was a Special II. Even with the minor issues I saw with it and every other Special II, it was a good guitar. It played well, was easy to play and sounded good enough for me to want to play. In my opinion, when compared to every other innexpensive guitar, the Epiphone's come out well above the competition.

Since then 2 years ago, I have aquired two Epiphone Les Paul 1960 Tribute Plus's an Ebony and a Midnight Sapphire. I'm getting ready to buy my third, an Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro in Alpine White. Don't get me wrong there was nothing terribly wrong with any of my guitars. I made these purchases to fill particular needs. The Ebony Tribute became my main, the black Special II went to my father cause he broke his Gretsch's neck. I bought the Midnight Sapphire Tribute to handle all my Drop D needs. (I'm OCD and hate re-tuning because I feel that a guitar works best when set up for the particular tuning.) I want to get the custom because every collection needs an Alpine White Custom.

Good luck!

-Rick

 

[battra]

I had a Special II way back in the way back.

I loved that guitar...but if I were buying one now, I'd get either an LP100 or a Used Studio.

LP 100 for $210.

Studio for $229!

With Inlays Studio $279

All pricing shipped.

That set neck is the tits, man.

 

[LessPol]

I think I might just say screw the Special II GT and focus more on the LP100. Are/were there any special or limited Lp100's worth spending the extra time looking for?

Also, somethings I just thought of. Is the Lp100 as slim and flat as the Special II? Or as slim as the Special II but same carved top shape as most other LP's?
I am curious because I want to know if regular LP hardware will fit the LP100, or would I need hardware for a flat top guitar?

I am just thinking, instead of the really low end Special II Gt, I can get the slightly better Lp100 now to (re)learn how to play and setup a guitar. Then later I could get a better Les Paul and customize the fairly cheap Lp100 with a decent tremolo, try a killpot in it, black hardware, pickguard etc... and keep that in drop D for heavier stuff, and keep the nicer Les Paul more traditional with the tune o matic bridgetail and in E at all times for most everything else. But, am curious if I can use regular Les Paul bridges and tailpieces and tremolo's with the Lp100

 

[Pflug]

If you shop around you can usually find a better guitar at a lower price looking at either used instruments locally or "scratch and dent" returns from online retailers

For a tremolo Les Paul, for example, I ended up purchasing two Nightfalls at different times from Musician's Friend for $209 a piece- comparable to the lower priced models you mentioned. For my money I got the much beefier set neck studio model with a "real" double locking trem (Floyd Rose Special- a decent Korean version)

If you're looking for a strat style trem like the GT and bolt on neck you're probably better off looking at one of the "higher line" Squier strats. The "vintage style" trems are ok for mild use but generally won't work well for anything too crazy or big dive bombing. There's a big difference between the range of a modern style versus vintage trem so the style you like to play should be a factor

If you're planning on upgrading guitars soon anyways the lower priced Special IIs play nicely and the low mounted toggle switch can be used for a "kill switch" effect. I had a bolt-on Epi SG for years and it was a great playing guitar as well

 

[LessPol]

If you shop around you can usually find a better guitar at a lower price looking at either used instruments locally or "scratch and dent" returns from online retailers

For a tremolo Les Paul, for example, I ended up purchasing two Nightfalls at different times from Musician's Friend for $209 a piece- comparable to the lower priced models you mentioned. For my money I got the much beefier set neck studio model with a "real" double locking trem (Floyd Rose Special- a decent Korean version)

If you're looking for a strat style trem like the GT and bolt on neck you're probably better off looking at one of the "higher line" Squier strats. The "vintage style" trems are ok for mild use but generally won't work well for anything too crazy or big dive bombing. There's a big difference between the range of a modern style versus vintage trem so the style you like to play should be a factor

If you're planning on upgrading guitars soon anyways the lower priced Special IIs play nicely and the low mounted toggle switch can be used for a "kill switch" effect. I had a bolt-on Epi SG for years and it was a great playing guitar as well

I dont really PLAN on spending more $ on a guitar later lol. I had my squier for years and I hated that thing lol. And if I were to get a Special II it would be the GT with killpot in it already, but I think I have talked myself away from the Special II and trying to focus on the Lp100, but concerned about hardware and replacement parts for the Lp100.

I believe the Epi's use metric hardware as opposed to Gibson's, correct? But can I use regular Les Paul bridges and tailpieces, pickup rings/covers and pickguards on the Lp100, or would I need to find that stuff for flat top guitars? Im not sure if the Lp100 is flat as the Special II, or carved top like a regular Les Paul, or somewhere in between????

 

[TerryH]

I dont really PLAN on spending more $ on a guitar later lol. I had my squier for years and I hated that thing lol. And if I were to get a Special II it would be the GT with killpot in it already, but I think I have talked myself away from the Special II and trying to focus on the Lp100, but concerned about hardware and replacement parts for the Lp100.

I believe the Epi's use metric hardware as opposed to Gibson's, correct? But can I use regular Les Paul bridges and tailpieces, pickup rings/covers and pickguards on the Lp100, or would I need to find that stuff for flat top guitars? Im not sure if the Lp100 is flat as the Special II, or carved top like a regular Les Paul, or somewhere in between????

The LP100 is not a flat top, and any hardware should be interchangeable with any Epi (as in Standard, Tribute Plus, etc.).

 

[Tanqueray]

The 100 has a thin body, but it does have a curved top like the other Epiphone Les Paul guitars (studio, standard, tribute, etc.)