Speakers do change with age

??

  • Wow! Much larger difference than I anticipated. I prefer the new one.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Wow! Much larger difference than I anticipated. I prefer the old one.

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • They don't sound that different to me.

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • They sound identical to me.

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • Total voters
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5F6-A

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Same speaker type from the same manufacturer. One is brand new. The other one has been used at loud volume for 15 years.
Same player, same guitar, same amp, same cab, same microphone, same riff.

Let me clarify that it's not the same speaker. It's the same speaker type so there might be some degree of variance but to be honest, these days tolerances are soooo tight that the difference is negligible. What do you think?
 
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BDW60

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The old speaker sounds like it’s behind a thick blanket.
 

hbucker

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A bigger difference than I would anticipate. But I often find new speakers needing the brightness EQ'd out. By the same token, the old speakers in this example could have some brightness EQ'd into them.

The new speaker is too bright for me. The old is too dull for me in this example.

And if the brand new speaker was taken out of the box just for this video, I'd give it 50 hours (or so) of break-in time before I got too carried away with what a new speaker is intended to sound like. Break-in time is important and realistic.

I get the purpose of the example, but would be interested to hear each speaker with the amp dialed (compensated) so a similar sound comes from each speaker. I'm guessing they'd sound much closer than they do in this example, but still with some subtle differences.
 

ErictheRed

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They were never the same speaker, just the same make and model. It would be cooler if someone recorded a speaker and then, ten years later, used the exam same equipment through to record the exact same speaker again. That would tell you how much it actually changed!
 

Soul Tramp

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Speakers most definitely change with age.
  • The coating on the spider forms thousands of micro-cracks and loosen
  • The surround softens and loosens
  • The voice coil can reposition in the gap
  • The cone softens
  • Cone sag
  • Lower DCR
 

5F6-A

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They were never the same speaker, just the same make and model. It would be cooler if someone recorded a speaker and then, ten years later, used the exam same equipment through to record the exact same speaker again. That would tell you how much it actually changed!
Correct. I made clear that it was the same speaker type.
 

grumphh

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Since there is actual mechanical motion (vibration) happening in a speaker, and furthermore that that motion acts on the relatively soft cone material, the mottion of which produces the soundwaves we hear, it makes sense that a decade or two of motion will alter the soft material, resulting in an altered sound.

At least i would never expect a used 20 year old speaker of a given model to sound the same as a 20 year old NOS speaker of the exact same model.
 

grumphh

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Speakers most definitely change with age.
  • Lower DCR
Lower DCR???
Is DCR = DC Resistance?
Because if it is, how on earth would that change with age?
We are talking resistance in a metal thread/wire, this should not change at all, regardless of use of the speaker.

If it is something entirely else, fair enough, forget i asked, but i just can't see any way in which DCR can change in a speaker.
 

Soul Tramp

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Lower DCR???
Is DCR = DC Resistance?
Because if it is, how on earth would that change with age?
We are talking resistance in a metal thread/wire, this should not change at all, regardless of use of the speaker.

If it is something entirely else, fair enough, forget i asked, but i just can't see any way in which DCR can change in a speaker.

A couple things can come into play with age.
  • Magnets can lose their energy with age. Especially true with an alnico
  • The voice coil winding can breakdown and short against itself and the gap
I'm guessing here, but probably more than half the old speakers I've worked with have had a reduced DCR.
 
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grumphh

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A couple things can come into play with age.
  • Magnets can lose their energy with age. Especially true with an alnico
  • The voice coil winding can breakdown and short against itself and the gap
I'm guessing here, but probably more than half the old speakers I've worked with have had a reduced DCR.
Fair enough, yes, the symptom of a shorted voice coil would indeed be lower DCR, but the cause in that case would be simple component failure.

As for demagnetization, i still can't see how that would affect DCR, maybe i overlooked something :)
 

Soul Tramp

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Fair enough, yes, the symptom of a shorted voice coil would indeed be lower DCR, but the cause in that case would be simple component failure.
I don't understand your point. Every aspect of aging and it's affect on voicing is component failure.
  • Varnish fracturing
  • Surround breaking down
  • Cone sag
  • Cone softening
  • Etc.


As for demagnetization, i still can't see how that would affect DCR, maybe i overlooked something :)
I didn't say demagnetization reduces DCR. I wrote "A couple things can come into play with age. " Since the title of this thread is "Speakers do change with age" it seemed reasonable to mention sometime the magnetics degauss. Sorry for the confusion.
 

grumphh

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I don't understand your point. Every aspect of aging and it's affect on voicing is component failure.
  • Varnish fracturing
  • Surround breaking down
  • Cone sag
  • Cone softening
  • Etc.




I didn't say demagnetization reduces DCR. I wrote "A couple things can come into play with age. " Since the title of this thread is "Speakers do change with age" it seemed reasonable to mention sometime the magnetics degauss. Sorry for the confusion.
Then i just misunderstood your reply, i thought i got an answer to the specific DCR question i had.
The rest of you points i agree with (which is why i didn't quote them), it was just the DCR i didn't understand being a factor :)
 

el84ster

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I think speakers like tubes, sound best at some mid point. After too long, they can get a little mushy and less...defined?
 

ehb

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When I buy a new speaker, besides playing guitar through it, I plug in one of my five string basses and play walks and such at low volume... No Tisdale,, Miller, Popwell....just laid back walks and such, using the B a lot... Just watch tv and badoon doon doon doon doondy doon doon doon Etc... its dem long waves, mang...

Works well in my mind and I’m the only one up in there so it’s unanimously accepted as effective. ;)
A Celestion (or CHelestion) Seventy80 12 a small jug combo came with, took a loooong time to change. I was leaning toward a PJack or vintage JBL, but was curious if it would ever change. Finally did...not a ‘killer’ speaker but does pretty well to be a cab stuffer speaker... May not ever change it now... If I gigged it, JBL 12”. Bud won’t sell me one of his old ass F PRs....I just want the one w/ a JBL 12... Greedy rat bastid... Not even for ‘nanner Moon Pies.... Boy ain’t right in the haid... I’ll tell you what...
 

Wrench66

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When I buy a new speaker, besides playing guitar through it, I plug in one of my five string basses and play walks and such at low volume... No Tisdale,, Miller, Popwell....just laid back walks and such, using the B a lot... Just watch tv and badoon doon doon doon doondy doon doon doon Etc... its dem long waves, mang...

Works well in my mind and I’m the only one up in there so it’s unanimously accepted as effective. ;)
A Celestion (or CHelestion) Seventy80 12 a small jug combo came with, took a loooong time to change. I was leaning toward a PJack or vintage JBL, but was curious if it would ever change. Finally did...not a ‘killer’ speaker but does pretty well to be a cab stuffer speaker... May not ever change it now... If I gigged it, JBL 12”. Bud won’t sell me one of his old ass F PRs....I just want the one w/ a JBL 12... Greedy rat bastid... Not even for ‘nanner Moon Pies.... Boy ain’t right in the haid... I’ll tell you what...
I had a Fender HRDx that had a Celestion Seventy80 in it. I had it for 5 or 6 years. It always sounded as harsh as the day I bought it, like it never broke in. I dumped the amp as it was simply to damn loud for anything I was ever going to do with it. The amp worked as a pedal platform, but trying to get tube overdrive out of that amp was like having your body rearranged at the molecular level.
 

ehb

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I had a Fender HRDx that had a Celestion Seventy80 in it. I had it for 5 or 6 years. It always sounded as harsh as the day I bought it, like it never broke in. I dumped the amp as it was simply to damn loud for anything I was ever going to do with it. The amp worked as a pedal platform, but trying to get tube overdrive out of that amp was like having your body rearranged at the molecular level.
It took a looong time for mine to limber up. I think my bass V method limbers it up better than just playing... Multiple days/wk with bass V. Almost daily with guitar.... Damned hard to get the Sev80 to lighten its ass up.... Finally did though. Lower notes, longer λ, cone flexing slower, etc...

Works for me...
 

Wrench66

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It took a looong time for mine to limber up. I think my bass V method limbers it up better than just playing... Multiple days/wk with bass V. Almost daily with guitar.... Damned hard to get the Sev80 to lighten its ass up.... Finally did though. Lower notes, longer λ, cone flexing slower, etc...

Works for me...
I have no doubt. I don’t think I ever really pushed the one I had. It was just to loud for my needs.
 
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THDNUT

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Both speakers in the OP sound the same to me. :dunno:
 

ehb

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I have no doubt. I don’t think I ever really pushed the one I had. It was just to loud for my needs.
I don’t see it as volume as much as repetitive freqs... Next speaker I buy new, I may stream Mozart’s 40th 24/7 for a week at moderate/low volume through it... That should limber it up.
 


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