Some sanity on Gibson prices!

[LongBeach]

Don't all authorized dealers pay about the same to Gibson? The pricing is contingent on specified volumes, but I didn't think there was a huge gap between superstores and Mom & Pop's.

Yes, in my opinion they probably due pay about the same, factory direct.
The difference is the mark-up each shop places on there product.
I'm sure even the mom & pop stores know what MF & GC are
selling them for, whether that determines there mark-up,
who knows?

 

[Boleskinehouse]

True. I've never given it a thought.

When a plain old weight relieved Custom with a short tenon is $3,899 at GC, but a Super Dealer can get me a '68 reissue Custom that's built like a Historic for a whole grand less... Not much reason to think about GC anymore.

Plus the added benefit that the '68 hasn't been played by every snot nosed emo kid within 100 miles... Just about every "new" Gibson I've ever seen at GC has been used and abused.

Now, before someone tells me; "They always have some in the back, un opened!" Um.. No they don't. Mine doesn't anyway.

A nice looking Alpine White Custom caught my eye at GC once. I immediately noticed that half the nut was almost completely broken off. I pointed it out to several "dudes" in there along with a manager, and none of them had any idea it was like that. They offered $200 off.

No, I don't like GC very much. They read these forums and I hope they see all this.

 

[xsouldriverx]

<3 mom and pops
even if its just the local 25 year old that owns it and not a real mom and pop

 

[Deus Vult]

That's the point I want to make.

perhaps, but your other point was to bait an argument.

"If someone wants to spend that much money and feel better about it, and I point it out, then what good does it do? "

i would say that someone who feels as you do, is :
a) jealous
b) inexperienced (i bet you're under 21 and/or have less than 10 years experience with LPs)
c) both a and b

guitar snob? absolutely.

 

[ArchEtech]

perhaps, but your other point was to bait an argument.

"If someone wants to spend that much money and feel better about it, and I point it out, then what good does it do? "

i would say that someone who feels as you do, is :
a) jealous
b) inexperienced (i bet you're under 21 and/or have less than 10 years experience with LPs)
c) both a and b

guitar snob? absolutely.

If that was how you're trying to sound then congrats!

 

[Shai`tan]

The pricing on anything not Custom Shop made is outragously thru the roof imho. You guys I am sure saw the Gibson Factory tour vids. They have got production down to a fine art. And they can put together a Les Paul so fast, it`d make your heads spin. Imho that is not worth 2500+ dollars.

What would be worth 2500+ bucks imho is a Custom Les Paul builder doing it all by hand. Custom for YOU. That or Gibsons or whoevers Custom Shop making and selling a recreation of the Originals. OR..... actual 70s and 80s Les Pauls etc.

I looked at a Classic Custom (and a quite a few others) at my local L&M a few weeks ago. Imho, I didn`t see anything there the worth 2500 they were tagged at. Again, just my ops.

 

[jco.1]

FWIW, Gibson's premise is: "If it is priced high enough, the perception will be that it's worth it."

And I own two, bought used.

 

[jco.1]

Yes, in my opinion they probably due pay about the same, factory direct.
The difference is the mark-up each shop places on there product.
I'm sure even the mom & pop stores know what MF & GC are
selling them for, whether that determines there mark-up,
who knows?

Right on; if GC and MF can sell to a much wider audience (at relatively similar COST price points), shouldn't the prices be lower at the super chains and maintain margin? Why are their "sale" prices $300-$500 higher than a M&P if they can get a better price point?

 

[Boleskinehouse]

I think it's because the GCs, MFers, and Sam Ashes of the world are geared towards people that don't know any better. Most people I see in there are kids no older than 16, with their parents standing there dumbstruck.

 

[Ayrton]

Gentleman, the manufacture (eg Gibson) is who sets the MAP (minimum advertised price), NOT the dealer. So when you walk into your local store, they have to tag the guitar as per their dealer agreement. However, the store can choose to sell the guitar for whatever they want.

This is the same for big box chains, and mom & pops.

 

[guitarfish]

I think it's because the GCs, MFers, and Sam Ashes of the world are geared towards people that don't know any better. Most people I see in there are kids no older than 16, with their parents standing there dumbstruck.

You got that right. "At GC, an educated consumer is our ummm, worst customer."

 

[Guido]

I think it's because the GCs, MFers, and Sam Ashes of the world are geared towards people that don't know any better. Most people I see in there are kids no older than 16, with their parents standing there dumbstruck.

I was stupid enough to buy an Elitist off MF (Not a bad price that I know, though) But that was before entering this forum (or at the same time)
If I buy a guitar now, Itll be a different story

 

[jco.1]

You got that right. "At GC, an educated consumer is our ummm, worst customer."

"Ding!"

 

[LongBeach]

Gentleman, the manufacture (eg Gibson) is who sets the MAP (minimum advertised price), NOT the dealer. So when you walk into your local store, they have to tag the guitar as per their dealer agreement. However, the store can choose to sell the guitar for whatever they want.

This is the same for big box chains, and mom & pops.

Exactly!
So, wouldnt you think the major chain stores could afford to sell them at
a lesser price, due to the # of items they sell, opposed to mom & pop who
dont have 2,000 guitars, 90 amps, drums, and everthing else under the sun.

So, like noted before, I can get a too-spec Custom, untouched, from a mom & pop shop for $800.00 less than a major chain?
Less employee's to pay (employee's paycheck is usually from material mark-up) so, m&p, less mark up. Big chain, more mark-up due too more employee's to pay. Still, kinda gray in my mind. Due to contradicting myself

 

[LongBeach]

I was stupid enough to buy an Elitist off MF (Not a bad price that I know, though) But that was before entering this forum (or at the same time)
If I buy a guitar now, Itll be a different story

Dont beat yourself up over it, I ordered my first Strat on-line from GC.
Never played it, or, one like it prior to ordering it. It turned out to be a
great guitar, but that was strictly dumb-luck (IMO)

 

[specflec]

The pricing on anything not Custom Shop made is outragously thru the roof imho. You guys I am sure saw the Gibson Factory tour vids. They have got production down to a fine art. And they can put together a Les Paul so fast, it`d make your heads spin. Imho that is not worth 2500+ dollars.

What would be worth 2500+ bucks imho is a Custom Les Paul builder doing it all by hand. Custom for YOU. That or Gibsons or whoevers Custom Shop making and selling a recreation of the Originals. OR..... actual 70s and 80s Les Pauls etc.

I looked at a Classic Custom (and a quite a few others) at my local L&M a few weeks ago. Imho, I didn`t see anything there the worth 2500 they were tagged at. Again, just my ops.

Good points. However, if I make - or in my specific case, grow - a superior product and I learn to do whatever it is better/more efficiently/easier/faster, does that mean I need to charge less for the product? Or does it mean that I can afford to pay better wages to employees, invest more in areas of my business that need resources, develop a new product line, or just provide a better life for my family?

It seems to me that building a superior product is the key here and if you feel that Gibson does, indeed, have a superior product, then the price is justified to a reasonable point. If you feel someone else makes a better product or you are not interested in the superiority of the product, you can spend a different amount.

The issue is, then, being sure the product stays superior and not compromised by the speed/efficiency/ease of production. That is to say - does the method of production maintain the quality of the product? And does the quality of the product justify the price?

If you want a custom Les Paul and not a Les Paul Custom, then have one built. But it seems a bit unfair to ask a guitar company that makes "production" models to make a "custom" instrument for the same price. I am not an expert on pricing, but a custom build is probably going to run more than $2500. Yes? And, for the record, I don't think Gibson is beyond reproach.

Not itchin' for a fight here. Just my $.02. Thanks.

 

[spacebubby]

Gentleman, the manufacture (eg Gibson) is who sets the MAP (minimum advertised price), NOT the dealer. So when you walk into your local store, they have to tag the guitar as per their dealer agreement. However, the store can choose to sell the guitar for whatever they want.

This is the same for big box chains, and mom & pops.

And I've always gotten a better deal from Saul and the like.

 

[jco.1]

I'm all for covering overhead, maintaining an experienced workforce, and developing cashflow for R&D and equipment. I just happen to know that there is a fair amount of instituitonal arrogance involved with Gibson's branding.

 

[guitarfish]

Gentleman, the manufacture (eg Gibson) is who sets the MAP (minimum advertised price), NOT the dealer. So when you walk into your local store, they have to tag the guitar as per their dealer agreement. However, the store can choose to sell the guitar for whatever they want.

This is the same for big box chains, and mom & pops.

As you said, MAP is minimum advertised price. So local newspapers, web pages, etc can't go below MAP. However, I don't think MAP restricts the store from tagging it any way they want. I think stores can sell as low as they want, they just can't advertise below MAP. That's how it seems to work anyway.

 

[jco.1]

I think so; and as long as the volume commitment is met, G doesn't care about margin at the retailer level. Assumiing the store is still in buisness next year.