So a cop pulled my son over...

[CB91710]

Never say no to the question 'do you know why i stopped you?' say 'am i under arrest?' or ask if there 'is there anything I can help you with officer?' but never say 'no I don't' in the UK that will land you a driving without due care and attention fixed penalty notice and whatever else they can get away with.

Saying "Am I under arrest" is one of the fastest ways to be in cuffs in the back of the car while the cop sorts through the bullshit and looks for something to arrest you for.

Look up "Sovereign Citizen" or "Sov Cit" on Youtube.

Refusing to cooperate NEVER works out in your favor. I was surprised as hell that there was actually a situation on LivePD where the driver declined consent for a search of his vehicle and it didn't go sideways.
That doesn't happen very often.

Yes, the question "do you know why I stopped you" is intended to get you to admit guilt, whether it's for what he actually used as RS for the stop, or something you know you did but he isn't aware of... "Because I didn't use my turn signal?" Boom... warning or cite for that.

No, you aren't under arrest.
Yes, you are being detained until the reason for the stop is resolved. There are 10,000 other people on that road, and *you* are the one who did something to draw the cop's attention.

 

[Roberteaux]

Under Florida law, a traffic stop is indeed included under the definition of a legal "arrest", with the word pertaining to *any* detainment by police-- even if the reason for such detainment is temporary and due to an officer having observed a non-criminal, civil offense... which is pretty much every traffic stop, except for DUI, DWLS, and two other admin gaffes that boil down to being a misdemeanor crime instead of a non-criminal civil infraction.

That is also the case for a Terry Stop-- that is, a "Stop and Frisk" situation.

I used to have people ask me if they were under arrest and I'd tell 'em, "Yeah, you are... until I either un-arrest you, or you decide to escalate your behavior and I decide to just stick your ass in jail for something really stupid, such as Loitering and Prowling."

***************​

LOL Back to traffic shit: some guys figured that they wouldn't sign the traffic ticket. I'd just shrug and say, "Okay!", and then I'd drop the citation right on the road, right in front of them (same rules as for "legal service" of any other court order or subpoena) and I'd tell them, "Yeah, okay-- so now I'm gonna stroke you for failure to sign a traffic citation. That's a second ticket for you."

So I started writing away, and the guy drove off while I was standing there filling in his second citation.

I could have gone after him for something stupidly escalated, such as "obstruction", or "fleeing and attempting to elude the fuzz", or even "resisting arrest without violence".

But why bother? That's not the actual "Spirit of the Law", plus, this would create a dangerous situation for other motorists to deal with, plus, the judges and our brass looked very darkly on the idea of a Hot Pursuit just because some douche failed to sign a citation.

So, I'd just fill the ticket out while the guy drove away, and I'd toss his copy down onto the side of the road anyway. LOL Littering, but in my case-- legal due to the prescription of the procedures the Florida supremes laid on us. Believe it or not, it's still "lawful service" of a legal document, even though the guy took off after being served the first doc.

***************​

We didn't care worth a shit. Because the driver refused to sign or accept the ticket, he or she wouldn't be aware of when their court date came up. This meant that their license would be automatically suspended and if they were yanked over again, the next cop could not only bust them for DWLS, but he could also break something else if they decided to resist with violence, to drive off, or whatever.

And supposing the driver wasn't from this state and never got pulled over again while in this state?

They'd often be arrested when they showed up to try and renew their license... in many states, seeing as we had a compact with all of the other 49 states of the Union. In some states, they were simply told to straighten out this Florida Thing... unless they were found behind the wheel, DWLS. Then? Poof!

Meanwhile, Florida would also put out an arrest warrant for the driver, for Failure to Appear on that traffic citation. No other state would make the arrest-- it's a misdemeanor, and Florida does not like to extradite misdemeanor offenders. It's expensive, and it's their problem.

***************​

So, if they wanted that license back, they'd have to straighten shit out with Florida. We allowed them to do that by mail, but it was an expensive PITA... a good way to see your 35-buck ticket turn into something that cost over a grand to straighten out.

Quite often, however, we'd receive word from an out-of-state agency that actually did place the defendant under arrest because DWLS is a crime in their state also.

But all they wanted from us was copies of the shit that we wrote up while they were driving away, to present in court if the defendant wanted to fight off those charges that were incurred by DWLS in their home state.

Very expensive to straighten all that out. But a surprising percentage decided to shell out the bucks to be reinstated, rather than to do time even in their own state.

I'd just laugh if they drove off on me. I loved it!

--R

 

[Lungo]

So, is the guy still pulled over?

Probably so. Unless he finally realized he should ask “am I being detained?”

 

[CB91710]

Ya... Temporary detention certainly fits the dictionary definition of "arrest" as in one has been stopped or otherwise obstructed from continuing in what they were doing.

Application of the terminology absolutely varies from state to state.... as does the classification of crime.
My understanding is that in Texas and Oklahoma, there is no such thing as an infraction.... all traffic violations are misdemeanors on some level.
Of course, in Arizona, 20mph over the limit transitions from being an infraction to criminal status, though the officer is not obligated to press the charge, and even if they do, they are not obligated to bring the driver back to the station.

 

[Laggspike]

me too...

Great one Laggy..!

thanks mate <3