Significant Tonal Improvement Changing Klusons for Grovers

Big Monk

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I just put the Klusons back on my Epi 50s Standard to have a reference. Had Grover’s on for about 9 months or so.
 

Dolebludger

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I just have a question. I just don’t understand how Grover’s weigh that much more than Klusons to cause headstock break. Has anybody weighed a set of each? And also, what model of each brand are we talking about. Like Kluson sells a model of tuners that appear to work like Grover’s, but at]re a no-drill replacement for classic Klusons. Regardless of the brand of tuners, the tight tuner/body connection is the key to any tonal benefit.
 

Big Monk

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I just have a question. I just don’t understand how Grover’s weigh that much more than Klusons to cause headstock break. Has anybody weighed a set of each? And also, what model of each brand are we talking about. Like Kluson sells a model of tuners that appear to work like Grover’s, but at]re a no-drill replacement for classic Klusons. Regardless of the brand of tuners, the tight tuner/body connection is the key to any tonal benefit.

I did notice when installing the Grovers and when pulling them today that their “collars”, i.e. the part that inserts into the headstock, was much more snug to the headstock than the Klusons were.

It was a noticeable difference as I had to push the Grovers in and wiggle them out.
 

Dolebludger

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Yes. I personally believe (with no proof at all beyond my own experience) that the strongest contact between strings and body increases primary sustain and tone. Now, perhaps not by much (especially at high volume and gain), but noticeable at lower volumes and gain. Thus, I like this tight contact of strings/body all the way from tuners to nut to bridge to tailpiece. I had vintage Kluson tuners on my one owner 1961 Gibson SG LP Standard. They wore out and were replaced with “vintage correct” Klusons. But it still doesn’t sound right to me.
 

Big Monk

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Yes. I personally believe (with no proof at all beyond my own experience) that the strongest contact between strings and body increases primary sustain and tone. Now, perhaps not by much (especially at high volume and gain), but noticeable at lower volumes and gain. Thus, I like this tight contact of strings/body all the way from tuners to nut to bridge to tailpiece. I had vintage Kluson tuners on my one owner 1961 Gibson SG LP Standard. They wore out and were replaced with “vintage correct” Klusons. But it still doesn’t sound right to me.

I haven’t had a chance to play a ton yet on the Klusons but by next string change, I’ll make the decision to keep them or put the Grovers back on.

Shortly after I got the guitar, I put the Faber E-Serts into it and swapped in a Gotoh ABR-1. The E-Serts are basically a machine, import sized stud which is solid and has an M4 post coming out of it. Those things took ALOT of force to seat all the way into the body. Same with the Faber steel TP studs.

I’m thinking I’ll go back to the Grovers but the Klusons look so damn good I had to give them another shot.
 

Dolebludger

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Kluson makes tuners that work like Grovers but have tuning keys that look like vintage Klusons. I bet they work and sound great.
 
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Big Monk

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Welp, Grovers are back on. Not that there was anything wrong with the Klusons but I need a set of tuners to sweeten a deal for an acoustic husk and the Grovers are not going anywhere!
 

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