Significant Tonal Improvement Changing Klusons for Grovers

[smallstar67]

Yep, the more things change the more they stay the same. I’m not one of those, I just read them and scratch my head

Absolutely True. Like any hobby, there are people out there to sell you anything and everything under the sun. When I was younger I read Guitar like it was the bible for that month, pedal boards filled with utter nonsense, constant gear changes. As i got older I realized it was all about feel and playing ability, not pedals or effects.
Most of the changes experienced in things like tuner switch out are there, but they are microscopic changes only the player would notice. Long story short, get an axe you are comfortable with, plug it straight into a quality amp and JUST PLAY.

 

[guitardon]

Absolutely True. Like any hobby, there are people out there to sell you anything and everything under the sun. When I was younger I read Guitar like it was the bible for that month, pedal boards filled with utter nonsense, constant gear changes. As i got older I realized it was all about feel and playing ability, not pedals or effects.
Most of the changes experienced in things like tuner switch out are there, but they are microscopic changes only the player would notice. Long story short, get an axe you are comfortable with, plug it straight into a quality amp and JUST PLAY.

Yep, we’re on the same page. Truthfully throughout my whole life I’ve only use reverb when I play. Recently I bought a little MX carbon copy delay. Sometimes I throw that on when I’m out there but it’s hard to adjust delay in a large room. I try to paddleboard and I got five or six paddles and I just laughed at myself because I knew I never use them so I sold everything, For a loss of course. As for guitars like you say earlier and I had 22 at one time most of them were historic’s. Since then I’ve paired down to only two. I keep it that way because one is primary in a second as back up in case it goes in the shop. I’m happy as a clam with my new Brazilian and it will be with me till I die. So I understand what you’re saying they’ll try to sell you everything under the sun and I even tried letting them once and it was just a joke. Shit I’m a blues player, what the hell am I gonna do with Flange and Chorus etc. Nice chatting with you a lot of times on the forum people can be mean especially on a controversial topic like this. Nice to find a good one out there. Take care

 

[AJK1]

It appears that the Grover screw holes don't line up with the Kluson holes. Is that right? I was considering Grovers but don't want multiple holes.

Yep, you’ll end up with a weight relieved guitar

 

[Ransom]

So when can you ship me the one on the bottom? so pretty, and im not a fan of cherry bursts.

 

[flyingvguy]

So I installed some Grovers on my ol’ beater of a Les Paul and I have to say the tonal improvement with regard to response, sustain and note to note balance across the fretboard is not subtle. The guitar as a whole feels more alive and vibrant.

I know there is a simplistic view that added weight at the end of the headstock deadens the response but this is completely contrary to basic physics. Even acoustic guitar makers know that proper bracing is crucial to enhancing and tuning tonal response.

Prior to the Grovers, The guitar was tonally a bit “unfocused”. The lighter kluson tuners allowed the resonances to either cancel out or dissipate creating a somewhat muddled response plugged in despite the guitar being acoustically quite loud. The Grovers have not lessened the resonances as the guitar still rings out loudly acoustically. However that muddledness when plugged in is gone. Now the guitar has greater definition and punch with plenty of sweet overtones and harmonics that a great Les Paul is able to deliver.

I do think to Grover or not to Grover maybe guitar dependent. Some guitars have a compact and very strong fundamental tone that would be better served with klusons. But acoustically loud Les Pauls especially those that seem to have a tonal response that a little more prominent in the lower mids might very well benefit from them.

I also like the looks, has that old school rock n roll vibe

LOVE ME SOME LES PAUL PORN!

 

[flyingvguy]

TUNERS ARE GRADED...

1. GROVER
2. SCHALLER
3. GOTOH (not cheap versions)
4. WILKENSON
5. GIBSON

 

[flyingvguy]

Is this a joke ?

NOT a joke and yes the tuners do add or change the sound of the headstock timbre... sustain.

 

[Nikki M]

So I installed some Grovers on my ol’ beater of a Les Paul and I have to say the tonal improvement with regard to response, sustain and note to note balance across the fretboard is not subtle. The guitar as a whole feels more alive and vibrant.

I know there is a simplistic view that added weight at the end of the headstock deadens the response but this is completely contrary to basic physics. Even acoustic guitar makers know that proper bracing is crucial to enhancing and tuning tonal response.

Prior to the Grovers, The guitar was tonally a bit “unfocused”. The lighter kluson tuners allowed the resonances to either cancel out or dissipate creating a somewhat muddled response plugged in despite the guitar being acoustically quite loud. The Grovers have not lessened the resonances as the guitar still rings out loudly acoustically. However that muddledness when plugged in is gone. Now the guitar has greater definition and punch with plenty of sweet overtones and harmonics that a great Les Paul is able to deliver.

I do think to Grover or not to Grover maybe guitar dependent. Some guitars have a compact and very strong fundamental tone that would be better served with klusons. But acoustically loud Les Pauls especially those that seem to have a tonal response that a little more prominent in the lower mids might very well benefit from them.

I also like the looks, has that old school rock n roll vibe

Ever consider replacing the bridge/saddles..tail piece ..poles and thumbwheels to vintage spec repros..youll notice the tone change..

 

[Philo426]

I put a 35 year old set of Grovers on my 335 clone!Still tight and hold tune very well.

 

[AJK1]

I hate to be an assho...e but I’ve heard worse on the forums. I remember someone saying when they changed the jack plate it improved their sound. Someone once even said when they changed screws it improved their tone. Gimmy me a break they come out of the factory sounding just fine. I can see where the pickups change the sound but screws etc and tuners is a far stretch.

I agree
I put Grovers on a LP I had and I thought they were ordinary, they were stiff to turn and weren’t smooth at all
I put the Klusons back on it
I bought a new Classic recently and was disappointed that the Grovers on it were the same as the others I had, I won’t change them because I’ll leave the guitar stock, but they are a pain to use
I find Gotohs on my other MIJ guitars are way better

 

[J.Petersen]

Prior to the Grovers, The guitar was tonally a bit “unfocused”. The lighter kluson tuners allowed the resonances to either cancel out or dissipate creating a somewhat muddled response plugged in despite the guitar being acoustically quite loud. The Grovers have not lessened the resonances as the guitar still rings out loudly acoustically. However that muddledness when plugged in is gone. Now the guitar has greater definition and punch with plenty of sweet overtones and harmonics that a great Les Paul is able to deliver.

I do think to Grover or not to Grover maybe guitar dependent. Some guitars have a compact and very strong fundamental tone that would be better served with klusons. But acoustically loud Les Pauls especially those that seem to have a tonal response that a little more prominent in the lower mids might very well benefit from them.

I 100% agree with you and have done these experiments with friends, one of them a master luthier. We all agreed the differences were night and day and for the better. It IS subjective of course. Some people like the lighter more "airy" tone. Me personally, I like the more focused "electric" tone I get with the Grovers. I have 5 Gibsons, ALL have Grovers, ALL had the same improvement to me. I buy vintage sixties or early seventies Grovers, as I like the tone of them better than modern ones that are made cheaper and of a different material, which is also why they weigh less. EJ's master luthier Ed Reynolds hipped me to that a decade ago when I had just moved to Austin. Buy some real ones he said, ha ha ha. Not those new ones from China. He mentioned when you tap them you can hear a difference too, old vs new production. So I did, and he was right.

On a separate note, I recently had my hearing checked and I have VERY good hearing. Better than average, so it is a possibility some people simply can't hear what we're referring to, so to them we might sound crazy, ha ha ha, but that's ok with me.

 

[EpiLP1985]

A question for those who’ve replaced Klusons with Grovers: Did you find you needed to tap a new hole for the screw?

I’m contemplating putting the old Grover set from my early 2000s Epi Standard Plus Top on my 50s Standard:



The dry fit is perfect but the screw hole on the Grover sits a touch more than 1/16” off the bottom hole of the Epiphone Klusons.

Old prefer not to angle the screw in and go straight in but that will necessitate me taping hole pretty close to the bottom hole for the Klusons. I’d worry about composmising the Klusons hole if I ever went back.

 

[EpiLP1985]

Just went for it:

 

[sFLsniper]

The material at the contact points the strings certainly have to do with the tone of a guitar. Glad you found something that makes you want to pick up your guitar even more. The haters here just don't have the experience.

Ahh well, German born, lived in Australia couple of years. Actually have a problem with my eyes (right eye getting blind), so sometimes miss the right key. Sorry.

I understood what you typed perfectly fine and I'm an English teacher. I always tell Grammar Nazis "There, they're, their, it will be alright don't cry."

 

[dro]

I don't know why I don't put Grover's on all my guitars. Every time I have installed a set I was amazed at the improvement.