Siemens ECC83... better than the Mullard!

[5F6-A]

Hello forumites,

I just had a little experiment yesterday that has payed off... I swapped the first valve in my JTM45 ish amp from an NOS Mullard ECC83 for an NOS Siemens ECC83 made in Germany ( I left a Mullard for the V2 pos ). I always thought the Mullard was just too rich in the low mids and a bit too dark in the JTM45/Bassman circuit.

The result? Tighter low end, more complex high end, slight dip in the low mids (certainly a good thing) and a more transparent, musical tone.

Really chuffed! Never thought I could find a better valve but -in this instance- the Siemens is a clear winner.

 

[babatube]

Hello forumites,

I just had a little experiment yesterday that has payed off... I swapped the first valve in my JTM45 ish amp from an NOS Mullard ECC83 for an NOS Siemens ECC83 made in Germany ( I left a Mullard for the V2 pos ). I always thought the Mullard was just too rich in the low mids and a bit too dark in the JTM45/Bassman circuit.

The result? Tighter low end, more complex high end, slight dip in the low mids (certainly a good thing) and a more transparent, musical tone.

Really chuffed! Never thought I could find a better valve but -in this instance- the Siemens is a clear winner.

that's great!
now that you don't need the NOS mullard you can send it to me

 

[5F6-A]

I've heard the story of VOX in the 60s using Mullard ECC83s for the most part of their early production but also having some AC30s fitted with Siemens ECC83s for a while. Apparently the result with the Siemens was a leaner, tighter, clearer tone. Exactly what I found out!

 

[5F6-A]

UPDATE: I have installed a set of CS69 pickups in my Strat. They sound thinner than the previous set of pickups so I think I'm swapping the Siemens for the Mullard. The quest for tone never ends...

 

[NativH]

UPDATE: I have installed a set of CS69 pickups in my Strat. They sound thinner than the previous set of pickups so I think I'm swapping the Siemens for the Mullard. The quest for tone never ends...

Ah the quest for tone never ends does it? Exactly why my stash includes Mullard, Telefunken, Philips,GE, Brimar, Tungsram, Amperex, various JAN versions............ Guess I better pick up a Siemens also.

 

[JCM900MkIII]

The quest for tone never ends...

The cat is out of the bag for me as well.
But I swapped pickups instead.

Anyway, how 1 little piece can change tone so much (people talk about nuances, but sometimes it's day and night)

 

[Backstage]

Yes, we used that tube a lot because of its availability here and were glad that it was such a good alternative .

 

[5F6-A]

do you mean the siemens?

 

[Rodmac]

V1 ...... the Most important tube. Amp Tramp who knows TONE advised in an interview for Vintage Guitar Mag years ago, put all your $$$ into buying the Best NOS tube you can for V1.

 

[Progrocker111]

Yeah, V1 position is crucial. And i agree, Mullards can be a bit too dark, midrangey and airy in some amps. I love them in my Hiwatt, but other tubes gave me great tones too.

 

[5F6-A]

what about in JTM45?

I need some extra juice with my Strat with low output pickups...

 

[Backstage]

do you mean the siemens?

Yes.

 

[Syrus]

OK Getting confused here, but:

Isn't Mullard like a rebranded Philips tube?

And for the Siemens, these are super common where I live. I see lots of those during flea markets. Like boxes full of NOS tubes. I have no tester otherwise I would pile 'em all up.
(Lots of old Philips tube/valve radios here too, equipped with vintage Philips tubes for cheap)

 

[5F6-A]

old Mullard valves were made in Blackburn, northern England from the 50s till 1981 or 82. Original Mullard valves sound great, last foreve and they were not Phillips.

Pic of one of mine made in September of 1979.

 

[Syrus]

old Mullard valves were made in Blackburn, northern England from the 50s till 1981 or 82. Original Mullard valves sound great, last foreve and they were not Phillips.

Pic of one of mine made in September of 1979.

According to wikipedia:
In 1923, in order to meet the technical demands of the newly formed BBC, Mullard formed a partnership with the Dutch manufacturer Philips. The valves (US vacuum tube) produced in this period were named with the prefix PM, for Philips-Mullard, beginning with the PM3 and PM4 in 1926. Mullard finally sold all its shares to Philips in 1927. In 1928 the company introduced the first pentode valve to the British market.

So, since 1927 we are talking about Philips-Mullard. See what I mean?
Mullard might have produced them, but Philips was one of the biggest if not the biggest tube producers in the world. Seems highly unlikely that Mullard...you get the point Philips designed the tubes and introduced them. So predecessor wise it is all 100% Philips tech. Nice poppy I've got on my desk too.

I've got a load of old Philips HiFi tubes and they sound great in most of my amps.

 

[Rodmac]

Made by Mullard at Blackburn UK on British machines with British materials by British workers to British Standards. Suppliers to the Military forces of the British Commonwealth during WW2. That's why GE, Hammond and many other US companies used rebranded Mullard Valves. Phillips Holland might have been the parent company but that's all. Mullard UK was its own entity.

 

[Syrus]

Made by Mullard at Blackburn UK on British machines with British materials by British workers to British Standards. Suppliers to the Military forces of the British Commonwealth during WW2. That's why GE, Hammond and many other US companies used rebranded Mullard Valves. Phillips Holland might have been the parent company but that's all. Mullard UK was its own entity.

I agree, but I think it is more like Fender USA VS Fender Japan... Another company c.q. strategic business unit beating you at your own game.
Mullard was taken over by Philips and restructuring can be thorough - or - leave as is, the latter being the unlikely option. That set aside, imagine it like this - I'm thinking tubes á la Mullard on the cheap. Just deducting - same company same product. How many R&D's do you think they had in those days? I mean even if they are potentially close, then all of us could/would have to spend a whole lot less on NOS tubes. Corksniffery set a side, just thinking for the greater good you know