Should Gibson bring Les Paul Custom back to Gibson USA line?

[Injector]

Yeah, there's basically a "anything fun costs way more cause our dollar sucks" tax living in Canada. The time span back between 07-12 when the dollar was close to even with the US dollar was a fantastic time to be buying guitar gear.

The LP Standard is affected just the same.
We have a similar problem in the UK. The price of pretty much everything is a gigantic rip-off.

 

[Imperial]

The Standard price drop for the Original Collection was more than a few hundred. List price for a 2018 Standard was close to 3000€ (at Thomann). Now, Standard price is around 2300€ which is a similar price point where Traditional was at the time. And it makes sense, since those two are pretty much the same model.

The Custom was maybe something around 4000€ (price has steadily been going up) in 2018, so that would make it only something around 33% more than a Standard back then. Not too bad.

I guess the point here is that the Standard model changed to a simpler, more Traditional design, which allowed for the significant price drop. Meanwhile, the Custom hasn't changed.

 

[Malchik]

It is funny some of you are suggesting bringing [it] back to the Nashville plant with lesser qualities such as Richlite and acrylic inlays to bring down the price but are usually so orthodox on specs. If they bring the Custom back to the Nashville plant, I doubt anything will change as far as price goes and as far as the standard being the flagship of Gibson that can be debated because the Custom is to the Stingray as the Standard is to the base model Corvette.

I like the Custom where it is because I can have it M2M with almost any option I want. I had one made in Olive Green with a five-piece satin maple neck back in 2017 and regret parting with it. I'm thinking very hard about ordering a new M2M with a simple three-piece neck and a couple of other small configurations. I can't do that with Nashville products and I don't really want a modified vintage re-issue as that is kind of missing the point entirely.

 

[Overture]

It is funny some of you are suggesting bringing [it] back to the Nashville plant with lesser qualities such as Richlite and acrylic inlays to bring down the price but are usually so orthodox on specs. If they bring the Custom back to the Nashville plant, I doubt anything will change as far as price goes and as far as the standard being the flagship of Gibson that can be debated because the Custom is to the Stingray as the Standard is to the base model Corvette.

I like the Custom where it is because I can have it M2M with almost any option I want. I had one made in Olive Green with a five-piece satin maple neck back in 2017 and regret parting with it. I'm thinking very hard about ordering a new M2M with a simple three-piece neck and a couple of other small configurations. I can't do that with Nashville products and I don't really want a modified vintage re-issue as that is kind of missing the point entirely.

This. So much this.

I plan to have a M2M Custom done once I buy a house next year. Maple neck, tobacco burst w/ heavy flame top...the rest as is.

I've had many USA production LP's and a handful of custom shop's...the difference in quality is worth the price IMO.

 

[spartacus slim]

I really wish Gibson would finally do what is necessary for the Standard and upgrade it to Custom Shop production only.

Although the Custom has a niche following, it is unarguably the Standard that remains the quintessential and iconic Les Paul model. So it seems only fitting that the Standard should benefit from the same prestige that was conferred on to the Custom when it’s production was moved exclusively to the Custom Shop.

 

[Overture]

I really wish Gibson would finally do what is necessary for the Standard and upgrade it to Custom Shop production only.

Although the Custom has a niche following, it is unarguably the Standard that remains the quintessential and iconic Les Paul model. So it seems only fitting that the Standard should benefit from the same prestige that was conferred on to the Custom when it’s production was moved exclusively to the Custom Shop.

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not so I'm just gonna wait.

 

[spartacus slim]

Can't tell if you're being facetious or not so I'm just gonna wait.

Apologies Overture, I’m afraid I’ve lowered the tone by being facetious. I do though appreciate the reasons why you and others might prefer Custom production to remain at the Custom Shop, but the truth is the absence of the Custom model just makes the USA line up feel incomplete to me.

I’m quite sure however that the Custom will most likely continue to be built in the Custom Shop for the foreseeable future, and I do very much hope you enjoy your planned M2M guitar once you are able to order it next year...

 

[Shelkonnery]

The Custom costs double the price of a Standard. It used to cost 38% more 21 years ago. Them be the facts.

Well, take the inflated 2000 US catalogue I posted twice in this thread already. The difference in price between Standards and Customs is the same you showed in your UK catalogue ~ 36%.

Now if you actually look at the price tags from 2000 onwards, you will see the Standard fluctuated way more than you claim. While the Custom stayed in the same $4k-ish range.

Your comparison is not brilliantly accurate because you have to consider global brands use different strategies for different markets.

There’s exchange rates, import taxes, logistics costs, inventory...

So unless you can show some evidence there was a huge jump in Customs prices right when the Custom Shop moved (or how Standard prices haven’t changed much) I think you might be misinterpreting a few things.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

The only difference is branding. It's the same guitar, but the premium branding makes it more marketable. Expensive by standard line prices but more reasonable against other custom shop offerings. I see no reason Gibson would want to move it back. And as a consumer, I'd rather have the CS branding for my investment unless the price were to be lowered, but again why would they?

 

[AJK1]

 

[AJK1]

I bought the above guitar a couple of months back, brand new, I’m in Australia, they retail for AU$10,000 but I got mine for AU$7,000
I probably think it was a little pricey but I have zero regrets about paying the money for it as it is glorious in every way
The only thing I did to it was replace the pickups with Joe Bonamassa Amos pickups in aged gold, and they sound fantastic I must say
They just give me the Unpotted Vintage sound that I like
I’m glad it is a Custom Shop guitar
Gives it premium appeal

 

[AJK1]

The only difference is branding. It's the same guitar, but the premium branding makes it more marketable. Expensive by standard line prices but more reasonable against other custom shop offerings. I see no reason Gibson would want to move it back. And as a consumer, I'd rather have the CS branding for my investment unless the price were to be lowered, but again why would they?

Agreed

 

[Overture]

I bought the above guitar a couple of months back, brand new, I’m in Australia, they retail for AU$10,000 but I got mine for AU$7,000
I probably think it was a little pricey but I have zero regrets about paying the money for it as it is glorious in every way
The only thing I did to it was replace the pickups with Joe Bonamassa Amos pickups in aged gold, and they sound fantastic I must say
They just give me the Unpotted Vintage sound that I like
I’m glad it is a Custom Shop guitar
Gives it premium appeal

This is my 2020 Custom, and I couldn't agree more. The difference in quality vs my USA LP' (and others I've had in the past) is noticeable, and worth the price of admission IMO. I've changed the pickups out for a BKP Miracle Man set, engraved brass TR cover and brass switch tip. I have a 00' Standard, 16' R8 and Jackson KV2 otherwise and this is easily my #1.

 

[AJK1]

This is my 2020 Custom, and I couldn't agree more. The difference in quality vs my USA LP' (and others I've had in the past) is noticeable, and worth the price of admission IMO. I've changed the pickups out for a BKP Miracle Man set, engraved brass TR cover and brass switch tip. I have a 00' Standard, 16' R8 and Jackson KV2 otherwise and this is easily my #1. View attachment 551520

Awesome
That must sound huge with those pickups !

 

[gibbofan]

Well, take the inflated 2000 US catalogue I posted twice in this thread already. The difference in price between Standards and Customs is the same you showed in your UK catalogue ~ 36%.

Now if you actually look at the price tags from 2000 onwards, you will see the Standard fluctuated way more than you claim. While the Custom stayed in the same $4k-ish range.

Your comparison is not brilliantly accurate because you have to consider global brands use different strategies for different markets.

There’s exchange rates, import taxes, logistics costs, inventory...

So unless you can show some evidence there was a huge jump in Customs prices right when the Custom Shop moved (or how Standard prices haven’t changed much) I think you might be misinterpreting a few things.

Whatever happened in 2001-2004 has little bearing on what is possible now that the management has changed. Just because they did something weird after decades of not having that, doesn't mean they have to keep stay with that poor decision. Do you remember the company was under Henry J's rule at that time? A man who made very questionable decisions and was very much into the idea that Gibson is a lifestyle brand... which essentially meant that guitar pricing was less tied to the specs and actual manufacturing costs and more tied to just how a guitar was marketed and positioned in the market.
So Henry decided to price the Custom as a luxury item without any added value in 2000, and then they presumably decided to move it to the custom shop to justify the price a few years later. So just because the price didn't go up with the move to CS doesn't mean anything. What is meaningful is that Henry decided to price guitar as a luxury item without any added value in the first place.
Given that the management is much more sensible now and has made considerable steps in the right direction -- mostly undone many of later period Henry J moves, -- the situation with the Custom can be changed, too. That's not to say I advocate for the abolishment of the custom shop LP Custom. Keep that (that's what the custom shop is for), and bring it to the USA line as well.

 

[gibbofan]

The only difference is branding. It's the same guitar, but the premium branding makes it more marketable. Expensive by standard line prices but more reasonable against other custom shop offerings. I see no reason Gibson would want to move it back. And as a consumer, I'd rather have the CS branding for my investment unless the price were to be lowered, but again why would they?

Investment tools are good, and Gibson offers a fair portfolio. But they're also in the business of making player's guitars. You have your investment-tool 1959 Historics, and you have your Gibson USA Standards. I've never heard any 1959 Historic owner complain about their investments being diminished by the existence of the low-grade Gibson USA line LP Standards. If anything, the abundance of LP Standards Gibson USA serves as a gateway drug where people buy these, get hooked, and start wanting "more" and "better" down the line -- which leads to Historics. I don't see why a Gibson USA LP Custom would diminish your custom shop Custom investment -- a Gibson USA LP Custom would be lower-grade than your custom shop anyway.

 

[Musha Ring]

My 2017 Nashville is perhaps my most perfectly made….

ive blinged it out…but i don’t care what it’s technical pedigrees as to whether or not it’s a “real“ custom…it’s not but I would never know it

Fit and Finish is a level above anything I own…

View attachment 535002
View attachment 535003

That is a beautiful guitar! Why is it not a "real" Custom?

 

[Christosterone]

That is a beautiful guitar! Why is it not a "real" Custom?

to Me it is…
one of the smoothest tones I’ve ever had…
But technically it’s a limited run model from nashville vs a custom…
It’s probably the best new guitar in terms of fit and finish ive ever owned

-chris

 

[Shelkonnery]

... which essentially meant that guitar pricing was less tied to the specs and actual manufacturing costs and more tied to just how a guitar was marketed and positioned in the market.

I don’t think that’s a claim any of us can make, unless you were an insider or marketing expert or something like that at the time.

The Les Paul Custom was always meant to be the luxurious version. Ever since ’54 when Lester talked about a “tuxedo” guitar.


So what I get from you is you want Gibson’s once highest regarded model to become more attainable. 

If a luxury item becomes cheaper, it instantly loses its status. I wish we could get a Lexus for Toyota prices, but that’s just not how it works.

You sure do seem to want the premium guitar, so their strategy worked. You just don’t want to pay the price.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

I don't see why a Gibson USA LP Custom would diminish your custom shop Custom investment -- a Gibson USA LP Custom would be lower-grade than your custom shop anyway.

I'm not sure you meant to quote me, because I never said anything about a USA LP diminishing by CS LPC.

However, I think you just made my point.

They are the exact same guitar. No difference other than the CS branding. Nothing changed when they moved the classification from production to CS - same guitar. Yet you just stated that a USA LPC would be lower-grade. It wouldn't, but Gibson marketing wants you to believe so. Apparently you do, so mission accomplished. This is all about branding, perception of superiority and higher retail. They are the exact same guitar though.