Should a new sub forum be started?

[SWeAT hOg]

While what you said is true, there are other aspects. Size of the venue for one. You aren’t going to get away with an class 5 that isn’t mic’d at many decent sized outdoor venues.

Then there is tone....my 50w BE FRIEDMAN sounds KILLER even at 30% volume. A HELL of a lot better and more versatile than a class 5, and I own one of those too. Just because I have 50W doesn't mean I have to wick it to get what is IMO, great tone.

Go back and look at the video I posted in my thread "Crazy Train". That is a PERFECT example. We hire sound guys....they bring the P.A., set it up, run sound, and tear it down. That bar is pretty small....100 capacity maybe. The P.A. they brought is insane. 4 full size floor monitors, HUGE mains and subs. It would rock a 1000 person outdoor venue EASILY. Anyway, if you look/listen to the video, you'll hear people talking. They are talking loudly, but not screaming. Not once since we started this project late last year have we ever been asked to turn it down. In fact, we have been complimented by venue staff/owners about our reasonable volume level.

Even with all of the variety we play, I use two effect pedals on my board (not counting the wah). I use a Boss DD7 and a Boss Chorus. That's it. I hate pedals.

Another point....you COULD use a Class 5 unmic'd at this bar and MAYBE get away with it. But I promise you it would sound 10 times better mic'd out front with someone who knows what they are doing on a sound board. The key to great live sound is keeping the stage volume down, and letting a quality P.A. system do the work. Monitor mix is crucial.

If you are playing with a band that has a cheap P.A., and don't mic anything, the sound quality will definitely not be as good.

I love my setup: 15W amps for any small room/pub etc and break out the Bad Cat Unleash for any other bigger stage.

 

[NewDayHappy]

I don't think it'd get a lot of views, at least not enough to start a new sub for, doubt there'd be many contributors, could do fairly decent in the cellar though. I'd pay money to watch @Tim Fezziwig live though.

 

[freebyrd 69]

I don't think it'd get a lot of views, at least not enough to start a new sub for, doubt there'd be many contributors, could do fairly decent in the cellar though. I'd pay money to watch @Tim Fezziwig live though.

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

I’m still waiting for them to reinstate full frontal nudity in the “backstage” section.. WHOO!!

Oh! So those "sixangrystrings" are actually... G strings?

 

[rich85]

While what you said is true, there are other aspects. Size of the venue for one. You aren’t going to get away with an class 5 that isn’t mic’d at many decent sized outdoor venues.

Then there is tone....my 50w BE FRIEDMAN sounds KILLER even at 30% volume. A HELL of a lot better and more versatile than a class 5, and I own one of those too. Just because I have 50W doesn't mean I have to wick it to get what is IMO, great tone.

Go back and look at the video I posted in my thread "Crazy Train". That is a PERFECT example. We hire sound guys....they bring the P.A., set it up, run sound, and tear it down. That bar is pretty small....100 capacity maybe. The P.A. they brought is insane. 4 full size floor monitors, HUGE mains and subs. It would rock a 1000 person outdoor venue EASILY. Anyway, if you look/listen to the video, you'll hear people talking. They are talking loudly, but not screaming. Not once since we started this project late last year have we ever been asked to turn it down. In fact, we have been complimented by venue staff/owners about our reasonable volume level.

Even with all of the variety we play, I use two effect pedals on my board (not counting the wah). I use a Boss DD7 and a Boss Chorus. That's it. I hate pedals.

Another point....you COULD use a Class 5 unmic'd at this bar and MAYBE get away with it. But I promise you it would sound 10 times better mic'd out front with someone who knows what they are doing on a sound board. The key to great live sound is keeping the stage volume down, and letting a quality P.A. system do the work. Monitor mix is crucial.

If you are playing with a band that has a cheap P.A., and don't mic anything, the sound quality will definitely not be as good.

I dont disagree at all, I was more making the point that according to internet forums if you dont gig with at least 50 watts and a 2x12 you wont be heard at a gig.

As mentioned above clean volume is a whole different discussion.

I wasnt trying to tell anyone what they should gig with, it was more that dont rush out and replace an old tiny terror and you play rock music and want to play live. Its loud enough.

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

With all of today's technology and ear monitors and such,
any decent amp can make it.
You don't have to flood the stage anymore.

 

[rich85]

Just from my experience the gear you use becomes somewhat irrelevant a lot of nights. The amount of times you get to a venue and the room simply sounds bad is quite high, or the house cab sounds like crap, or the sound guy sucks!

Playing live is fun, you get to turn up your amp and play some tunes. Nobody in the crowd cares what you play through as long as your whole band can play well.

Like Jon said above, getting to a venue with a great PA and soundguy is just awesome. But you cant rely on that.

I have a migraine so apologies if I repeat myself I am on another planet.

I hate migraines

 

[LtDave32]

On the subject of amp power, just a recent observation;

A band that I work with recently played a medium-sized bar (whatever that is). The usual guitar player sports a Fender DR. 22 watts. Plenty for this venue, and plenty if mic'd for larger venues.

But he wasn't here this time.

Substitute player was brought in. Had a Blues Jr. 15 watts. It didn't seem to have the clean "oomph" that the DR has. Yes, it was mic'd through the PA. But something was missing, perhaps some bottom.

Now, I've messed with many a Vox AC 15 with both 1-12 and 2-12 speakers. They had that "oomph", the 2-12 having a slight edge in that department. So I don't think the small amount of wattage was the issue.

And as far as DRs go, I've never seen one "not deliver" for a country gig. Especially mic'd.

 

[freebyrd 69]

Just from my experience the gear you use becomes somewhat irrelevant a lot of nights. The amount of times you get to a venue and the room simply sounds bad is quite high, or the house cab sounds like crap, or the sound guy sucks!

Playing live is fun, you get to turn up your amp and play some tunes. Nobody in the crowd cares what you play through as long as your whole band can play well.

Like Jon said above, getting to a venue with a great PA and soundguy is just awesome. But you cant rely on that.

I have a migraine so apologies if I repeat myself I am on another planet.

I hate migraines

Migraines suck. Sorry man...hope you kick that quick.

I just cannot agree on the gear being irrelevant....on ANY night....ESPECIALLY your amp. If the music is guitar driven, at any level, the amp/cab/combo is super important, and it's not about volume.

I just hate, hate, hate shitty tone. As you said, a great sound guy can help, but, unless you pay someone who knows your band every gig like we do, that goes out the window almost immediately. Your gear becomes that much more important if there is no house sound, or, as you said, a shitty one at that.

I have told the story before about my buddies $800 Joe Bonamassa Epi. He brought it up one night and wanted to hear it played in a band setting, as he doesn't play out. I had no problem using it on a tune. I ended up using it for a whole set, and I promise you, nobody in that bar knew the difference between my 4k R9, and his $800 Epi. However, if you had reversed it.....if he would have brought me a 59 burst and a class 5 combo, people WOULD have noticed.....A LOT.

If you are going to gig with a cheap, low wattage amp, you had better have some REALLY good pedals and know how to use them. All a sound man is going to do is make your (not YOURS, but whoever's) shit ass tone louder and shittier.

I don't know man. I agree you don't need volume to sound great. I could use my Orange Dual Terror (that's my backup amp) through a nice 2 or 4x cab and sound good. But I'd challenge anyone with a Class 5 to sound NEAR as good tone wise. I own one and hate it. I just use it for taking up north to our cottage because it's easy to carry. Most amps like that I have tried just don't sound very good.

 

[freebyrd 69]

On the subject of amp power, just a recent observation;

A band that I work with recently played a medium-sized bar (whatever that is). The usual guitar player sports a Fender DR. 22 watts. Plenty for this venue, and plenty if mic'd for larger venues.

But he wasn't here this time.

Substitute player was brought in. Had a Blues Jr. 15 watts. It didn't seem to have the clean "oomph" that the DR has. Yes, it was mic'd through the PA. But something was missing, perhaps some bottom.

Now, I've messed with many a Vox AC 15 with both 1-12 and 2-12 speakers. They had that "oomph", the 2-12 having a slight edge in that department. So I don't think the small amount of wattage was the issue.

And as far as DRs go, I've never seen one "not deliver" for a country gig. Especially mic'd.

Does he use some pedals with the DR? Those are nice amps, and I could see that doing well. Once you get into the 15W and up territory, you can get some good amps. Anything below that.......

 

[LtDave32]

Does he use some pedals with the DR? Those are nice amps, and I could see that doing well. Once you get into the 15W and up territory, you can get some good amps. Anything below that.......

Two different guys, two different pedal rigs. But similar.

 

[SteveC]

Migraines suck. Sorry man...hope you kick that quick.

I just cannot agree on the gear being irrelevant....on ANY night....ESPECIALLY your amp. If the music is guitar driven, at any level, the amp/cab/combo is super important, and it's not about volume.

I just hate, hate, hate shitty tone. As you said, a great sound guy can help, but, unless you pay someone who knows your band every gig like we do, that goes out the window almost immediately. Your gear becomes that much more important if there is no house sound, or, as you said, a shitty one at that.

I have told the story before about my buddies $800 Joe Bonamassa Epi. He brought it up one night and wanted to hear it played in a band setting, as he doesn't play out. I had no problem using it on a tune. I ended up using it for a whole set, and I promise you, nobody in that bar knew the difference between my 4k R9, and his $800 Epi. However, if you had reversed it.....if he would have brought me a 59 burst and a class 5 combo, people WOULD have noticed.....A LOT.

If you are going to gig with a cheap, low wattage amp, you had better have some REALLY good pedals and know how to use them. All a sound man is going to do is make your (not YOURS, but whoever's) shit ass tone louder and shittier.

I don't know man. I agree you don't need volume to sound great. I could use my Orange Dual Terror (that's my backup amp) through a nice 2 or 4x cab and sound good. But I'd challenge anyone with a Class 5 to sound NEAR as good tone wise. I own one and hate it. I just use it for taking up north to our cottage because it's easy to carry. Most amps like that I have tried just don't sound very good.

and, of course, you remember my story about the Marshall Stack vs my little amp, right?

I now have a li'l Mesa Rectoverb that I run in 25w mode. Perfect (for me) gigging amp. With that & my pedal board, I can get most all of what I need for our covers.