Shame on you Gibson. Shame.

mrfett

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I actually tested the pots in my historic after the fact, they all tested between 540 and 570. Probably why Mark had such good things to say about it. Still the clarity is off the hook with the new harness and it is noticbly more open.
huh. that's interesting.
 

trapland

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You don't have to pay $80 for a harness if you do it yourself.
This ^^^. Harness schmarness! The .gibson braided wire is good, replace the pots and caps and you get the same thing. You gotta solder anyway, it doesn't take more than a few more minutes to replace pots only. And usually the pots are most of the problem.

Surprisingly my 2013 and 2014 historics had great pots. I never summarily replace stuff, I measure first. If the science shows parts change will give desired tone change, out they go.
 

LpCustom2007

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No disrespect to the vendors selling these things, but imo the harness hype is one of the biggest snake oils of the aftermarket business. A harness is 4 pots, 2 caps and some wire.
No magic dust as of what I know of..

Sure, if the values are way off, or if you want to change 300k stock pots to 500k, that´s understandable, but some people claiming that 10% tolerance values make a huge difference?? Nah. Not to me at least.

I do agree that some caps sound, or rather work better than others, but to me it has no connection to it being PIO or ceramic, I´d probably attribute it to specs. I really do think that most people do not use all 10 notches on a tone knob, if you can get three or maybe four usable positions over a tone knobs range, that would cover most peoples needs for sure..
 

johan.b

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Not everyone wants more treble/brighter guitar. I change the volume pot to 300k so i can pay loud onstage with a lot of distortion without scaring of the bats and slicing the eardrums off my audience. I guess that means i closed down my guitar?
...There is such a thing as "too bright". Sometimes the people on this forum just ...argh...there are more than one truth. ..not everyone play their guitar through the same amp as you. Not everyone wants the same sound. Some pickups suck with 470k pots but shine with 300k. others are the other way around. ..there is no general rule that 500k pots always sounds better. People like different things. .
there, i said it. ..you can ban me now. . :)
J
 

jamman

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I'm willing to bet the issue is one of tolerances and QC more than "Gibson uses crap parts". I bet lots of the guitars stock have 500k+ pots and sound great, but that some get pots that slip through and are closer to 350-400k and just don't sound as open and clear as the aftermarket stuff. Just my uneducated guess, but it t would explain why some people's guitars sound great out the box and others' need help.
It's both ,imo . a 10% tolerance can be substantial on a 500K pot . 50Ks either way . I can hear the difference of a pot that far out. Imo big difference in sound between 550K and 500K .
I don't recall seeing many as far out of spec as 350K-400K from Gibson in the last few years .And not since using 550K pots . IIRC there was a time when the tolerance used was 20% . that's a HUGE gap ,that leaves built in room for Junky pots.

Quality Control is and still is an issue with Gibson's pots , , It's improved the last few years , But some pots still get through that have that "dreaded Bump" at about 8 1/2 - 9 . Which ,IMO sucks . Worth spending $10.00 to replace the pot and get a better made quality controlled (watched) pot .
Consider turning torque as 1 of the QC /spec'd issues too . Gibson ,until very recently wasn't so good ,imo . All pots are not made the same even when their Ohms #'s are similar .

You don't have to pay $80 for a harness if you do it yourself.
Fenn , Some Don't / can't, or don't have the tools on hand for the job and might never get soldering skills to the point where it's good enough ,or are not so inclined to do work like this . Best thing , least costly thing for them is to just buy a pre-made harness . Add up all the costs to get set up and then buy all the parts needed , It's more then $80.00 + time lost + parts used getting to the point of having a harness that could go into the guitar 1st.

After spending K's on the guitar , then New Pups. And Then Starting trying to learn to solder ? when all they want (most times) is to play the damn guitar .
After getting all the Plastics changed to the "correct 1's " that is :lol:

Alpha Pots =generally suck:laugh2:
 

freebyrd 69

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It's both ,imo . a 10% tolerance can be substantial on a 500K pot . 50Ks either way . I can hear the difference of a pot that far out. Imo big difference in sound between 550K and 500K .
I don't recall seeing many as far out of spec as 350K-400K from Gibson in the last few years .And not since using 550K pots . IIRC there was a time when the tolerance used was 20% . that's a HUGE gap ,that leaves built in room for Junky pots.

Quality Control is and still is an issue with Gibson's pots , , It's improved the last few years , But some pots still get through that have that "dreaded Bump" at about 8 1/2 - 9 . Which ,IMO sucks . Worth spending $10.00 to replace the pot and get a better made quality controlled (watched) pot .
Consider turning torque as 1 of the QC /spec'd issues too . Gibson ,until very recently wasn't so good ,imo . All pots are not made the same even when their Ohms #'s are similar .



Fenn , Some Don't / can't, or don't have the tools on hand for the job and might never get soldering skills to the point where it's good enough ,or are not so inclined to do work like this . Best thing , least costly thing for them is to just buy a pre-made harness . Add up all the costs to get set up and then buy all the parts needed , It's more then $80.00 + time lost + parts used getting to the point of having a harness that could go into the guitar 1st.

After spending K's on the guitar , then New Pups. And Then Starting trying to learn to solder ? when all they want (most times) is to play the damn guitar .
After getting all the Plastics changed to the "correct 1's " that is :lol:

Alpha Pots =generally suck:laugh2:
You hit the nail on the head Jeff. I have never been any kind of a handyman.....PERIOD. Things that others describe as "easy", "no brainer", whatever, are simply not for me. I don't have the patience, and between work, my daughter, and life, I don't have the time.

Cleaning lady cleans the house, lawn company mows, trims, edges, and fortunately, I have a friend that lives close by that can do ANYTHING well on the home improvement/maintenance front. He is very reasonable with his rates. I'm old enough to know my limitations, and just don't want to f#$@ with it.

I also have a guitar tech that is reasonable with pickup or harness swaps, and knows how I like my setups. If I tried swapping that stuff, I'd burn my goddamn fingers and wouldn't be able to play for a month. So, well worth the investment.
 

jenton70

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You hit the nail on the head Jeff. I have never been any kind of a handyman.....PERIOD. Things that others describe as "easy", "no brainer", whatever, are simply not for me. I don't have the patience, and between work, my daughter, and life, I don't have the time.

Cleaning lady cleans the house, lawn company mows, trims, edges, and fortunately, I have a friend that lives close by that can do ANYTHING well on the home improvement/maintenance front. He is very reasonable with his rates. I'm old enough to know my limitations, and just don't want to f#$@ with it.

I also have a guitar tech that is reasonable with pickup or harness swaps, and knows how I like my setups. If I tried swapping that stuff, I'd burn my goddamn fingers and wouldn't be able to play for a month. So, well worth the investment.
:laugh2: I currently do have a nice burn on my left pointer finger from this most recent harness swap.
 

LP-Viking

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This is me troubleshooting a Tweed Deluxe clone I built. Power supply - checked!

 

BSeneca

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Matt is a great friend. His products and customer service are top notch!! I put his holy grail in both of my historics.
 

grayd8

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No disrespect to the vendors selling these things, but imo the harness hype is one of the biggest snake oils of the aftermarket business. A harness is 4 pots, 2 caps and some wire.
No magic dust as of what I know of..
I wouldn't go that far, take a jonesy harness for example.

He charges $135.00.

Parts and fees:
Luxe Bees: $59.00
CTS 550k pots $40.00
PayPal fee $4.72
Misc parts $3.00

Thats $106.72 in parts. The guy is making $28.28 a harness, maybe a little more if he has a bulk deal with his suppliers. He isn't getting rich making harnesses.

In my opinion guys like Jonesy, Martin and Jersey Shore Guitar Garage do quality work, and have equipment like capacitor testers that I don't have. Their labor rate is equal to what I would make in the amount of time that it takes to put together and test a harness. I see it as more than a fair trade off.
 

LpCustom2007

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I wouldn't go that far, take a jonesy harness for example.

He charges $135.00.

Parts and fees:
Luxe Bees: $59.00
CTS 550k pots $40.00
PayPal fee $4.72
Misc parts $3.00

Thats $106.72 in parts. The guy is making $28.28 a harness, maybe a little more if he has a bulk deal with his suppliers. He isn't getting rich making harnesses.

In my opinion guys like Jonesy, Martin and Jersey Shore Guitar Garage do quality work, and have equipment like capacitor testers that I don't have. Their labor rate is equal to what I would make in the amount of time that it takes to put together and test a harness. I see it as more than a fair trade off.
I wasn´t referring to the vendors products, it´s more the customers reactions that to me sound like they´ve been snakeoiled (no matter if they put the idea into their own heads or the seller did).

Like "wow, after changing my stock 550 CTS pots to XXX harness with 550 CTS pots it made such a huge difference!! The guitar opened up, broke in, angels were singing, my wife turned into Pamela Andersson ala 1991, I can play like etc etc etc"

Those are the reviews that makes me a bit suspicious..

I agree that it´s a great service to sell pre soldered harnesses to people who can´t/won´t do it themselves.

However, I have a very hard time believing that Jonesy, or any other vendor, pays 59 bucks for a couple of bees, and 10 bucks each for the pots..
 

viking20

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People can buy and sell what they want , but if you can't solder , why is it easier to buy a premade harness ? You can't solder the rest of the stuff anyway........ surely the guy who solders the rest of the wires for you , could assemble all the components in only a few minutes extra.......
 

freebyrd 69

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People can buy and sell what they want , but if you can't solder , why is it easier to buy a premade harness ? You can't solder the rest of the stuff anyway........ surely the guy who solders the rest of the wires for you , could assemble all the components in only a few minutes extra.......
The guy I use doesn't build wiring harness's. He doesn't have that stuff laying around, and it's not his area of expertise. Of course, even if he did, he would charge me or anyone else to assemble the harness as well. Time is money. That's why.
 

jamman

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People can buy and sell what they want , but if you can't solder , why is it easier to buy a premade harness ? You can't solder the rest of the stuff anyway........ surely the guy who solders the rest of the wires for you , could assemble all the components in only a few minutes extra.......
freebyrd 69 ^^^^ exactly . I'll add this .Try taking a guitar to ...say your Local GC and see how much they charge . They can't even get the right case with the correct COA in it ..A LOT Of Times ..... Let them Pick out Pots :laugh2: Sure......
Buying what you chose has advantages . Also The Vendor can pre-test the Harness before it's shipped . Many also buy Pups and caps at the same time and this helps when you have certain specs you want.

Until this year Gibson wasn't using 550K pots ,IIRC , Try and find them locally.
Have you seen the prices they want for them in GC /SA ??? Those ain't no $10.00 pots , even if they are "not so good" :laugh2:

Want TVT pots ?? Find some ...And paying only to have 4 wires connected ,as stated above ,just costs less .
 

MATTM

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It´s more the customers reactions that to me sound like they´ve been snakeoiled (no matter if they put the idea into their own heads or the seller did).
More BS

I agree that it´s a great service to sell pre soldered harnesses to people who can´t/won´t do it themselves.
Which is it? Snake oil or "a great service" ? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

However, I have a very hard time believing that Jonesy, or any other vendor, pays 59 bucks for a couple of bees, and 10 bucks each for the pots..
And you know this how? Further, do you think any of the vendors work for free? Ever hear of profit to sustain a business? Apparently not.
 

MATTM

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People can buy and sell what they want , but if you can't solder , why is it easier to buy a premade harness ? You can't solder the rest of the stuff anyway........ surely the guy who solders the rest of the wires for you , could assemble all the components in only a few minutes extra.......
Some of the most horrific soldering work I've seen is by so called "tech's." A lot of folks are lucky they can get the switch and pickup leads soldered in, let alone have an entire harness built.
 

RAG7890

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IMHO, there is no doubt that great soldering is an art form & one worth learning.

My 2c FWIW.

:cheers2:
 

Crotch

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Made a difference in both mine. Actually having working tone and volume controls is something I'm not used to with Gibson. I brought my harness to my tech and his reaction was "sweet, that'll make it easy." (I do not solder)
 

MATTM

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Made a difference in both mine. Actually having working tone and volume controls is something I'm not used to with Gibson
Yep. What's often overlooked is taper. It's not just about resistance tolerance.
 




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