SG Standard Maestro vibrato, loss of string resonation at factory action

Rogueaverage616

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I have been trying to figure this out, i have a 2016 Gibson Custom Shop SG Standard Historic with the Maestro vibrato, strung with .10’s its strange, that with my neck just about streight, little relief, the guitar basically gets all stiff feeling if i , even adjust the string action to stock numbers ...say 2mm low E and 1.6mm high E, if i bring the action up even that high, it seems like the strings become Dead” feeling , as if they dont want to vibrate and resonate fully ...the strings and action,get kind of stiff and the notes sound darker, and the sustain gets cut in half.

if i drop the action, the guitar acts and plays like a guitar, the strings resonate , sound alive, sustain doubles.
I think i just put my finger on what im trying to describe, ....the guitar just about acts as if it was a 2x4 with a bridge bolted to one end and a set of tuners on the other and strung to pitch, maby not that bad, but just about there.

can anyone tell me if this is a normal trait of ,the Lyre vibrato tailpiece? Or is this a thing
 

jonas91

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Hmm..
Well, when changing the action you also change the break angle of the strings over the bridge..
Maybe this has smth to do with it..?
 

Rogueaverage616

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Hmm..
Well, when changing the action you also change the break angle of the strings over the bridge..
Maybe this has smth to do with it..?
Yes i was reading that there is usually not enough break angle over that tremelo, but this guitar seems to want less?? Still has a dark duller type of sound, but i hear this is a trait of the SG a d in particular with the Maestro vibrola? But the strings ring out and sustain....though...i just added some relief as origionally it had a streight neck and now 1MM low E and 1MM high E action it seems to like
 

smk506

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Check and see if the strings are hitting the back of the bridge before the saddle with higher action.

I just got an LP style guitar that was experiencing very similar tonal and physical issues, turns out the tail piece was decked to the body. Fixed that and lowered the pickups a bit and it’s much better.
 

Rogueaverage616

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Yes, the strings clear the back of the bridge as there is a very shallow break angle over the saddles.The guitar seems to loosen up , and the strings actually resonate as well.With the bridge set low 1mm low E and the same for the high E.If i raise the bridge and therefore increase the break..then the strings soumd and feel like somethings holding them back from ringing out , its like the string tension stiffens, and if you strum, the strings ring out.but its like Doinkiiiiiing...when playing and fretting notes.Like something is stopping them from fully resonating

like a 3/4 fender mustang i played before.you lower the bridge and the strings feel like there is not much tension, on them but they ring out and sustain...Lol...it plays pretty good like that but feels weird like .10 guage strings with half the tension
 

jonas91

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If you have a Les Paul, you could try to raise the tailpiece a lot (or top wrap) to create a shallow break angle.
Maybe you do observe the same behaviour there as well?

If find your point very interesting.
On my SGs with Vibrola I always try to keep the bridge as high as possible for a sharper break angle.
Maybe they don't even need that and get something going once the angle is shallower?

Would you mind providing pictures of the break angle on your guitar? Just so we get a better understanding :)
 

Rogueaverage616

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If you have a Les Paul, you could try to raise the tailpiece a lot (or top wrap) to create a shallow break angle.
Maybe you do observe the same behaviour there as well?

If find your point very interesting.
On my SGs with Vibrola I always try to keep the bridge as high as possible for a sharper break angle.
Maybe they don't even need that and get something going once the angle is shallower?

Would you mind providing pictures of the break angle on your guitar? Just so we get a better understanding :)

Sure...Do you find a somewhat “Muffled” tone out of your “G” String on your Maestro SG? I actually simulated what my SG was doing on my Stratocaster by lightly touching the G string just coming off the saddle.You would expect a slight muffled “Dead” sound allthough the string still rings out.Thats what my SG feels like.The Low E,A,D strings dont do that, but the high strings seem to feel like , they are lightly being restricted,as if you were to place a very light touch of your finger on the string as soon as it leaves the saddle

thats what this SG feels like.A lower action still kind of feels or plays, sounds that way, ..but the strings can noticeably ring out and sustain 50% more with a lower action
 

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jonas91

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These are my 65 Junior and 65 Standard.

To be honest I didn't really hear any difference.
For me it was always the thought "more downpressure equals better tone" that's why I always tried to have as much break angle as possible.

Is the effect you described caused by the strings moving in the Bridge Slots? When you try to move them left to right by hand, are they slightly movable?
 

Rogueaverage616

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I can grab every string and easily pull up and out of each bridge saddle slot, even if i raise the bridge and therefore the break angle.

another thing i noticed, is that your spring ,is squished down more than mine,..therefore you have a steeper back angle on the strings behind the saddles..Hmmm

On the bright side, NAD yesterday
 

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