Serious Greenback G12H 55Hz Comparison: Vintage Pulsonic, Scumback, Heritage

[Case24]

Very good comparison video. Thanks very much for doing that. Just to help clear a few things up regarding the regular G12M Greenback; they are now made in the UK and have been since about April of 2018. I have one. Date code on it is JD28: September 28, 2018.

 

[ReWind James]

Heritage is made in UK... I bought a pair of them after hearing a few clips on utube .. George Metropoulos was using them on one of his Metro Plex demos... I thought it was going to have a good Bass resonance since the 55hz is a bass cone... I found them too nasally for my taste... I gave them a good beating (20 hours of loud playing time), I just couldn't get into them... The Chinese Greenies, surprisingly, sounded better to my ears....

I think allot of people prefer the Chinese ones over the UK/Heritage ones. I just don't think there is an H magnet / 55hz Chinese version to fairly compare to. I think the Chinese-made greenback is only available as a G12M 75Hz. With the different cone and magnet it's not really a fair comparison to the others.

Still, I actually DID do a similar comparison of a Chinese G12M, a Heritage G12H 55Hz, and a vintage Pulsonic cone G12H 55Hz a few months back, here: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/vintage-modern-greenback-frequency-response-comparison.427214/ You can see how they graph out compared to each other.

 

[ReWind James]

Very good comparison video. Thanks very much for doing that. Just to help clear a few things up regarding the regular G12M Greenback; they are now made in the UK and have been since about April of 2018. I have one. Date code on it is JD28: September 28, 2018.

View attachment 404092

Roger that. The T1221 in your photo is an Medium magnet 75Hz cone speaker. I was just saying that I don't think there is a non-Heritage-series G12 Heavy magnet 55Hz cone speaker. ...even the G12H 70th Anniversary speaker uses a 75Hz cone.

 

[Gridlock]

Going to give these a try.

 

[efstop]

Very good comparison video. Thanks very much for doing that. Just to help clear a few things up regarding the regular G12M Greenback; they are now made in the UK and have been since about April of 2018. I have one. Date code on it is JD28: September 28, 2018.

View attachment 404092

Earlier than that I just had to look at the code on the Greenback in my Mini Jubilee. Could barely make out the tiny letters, as I was looking through the ventilation slot on the rear panel. It's BB29 - Feb 29 2016. I was happy that my British built Marshall has a UK built speaker.

The G12M Greenback in my Vietnamese Vox Night Train 112 cab is Chinese.
And the G10F15 in my 2010 Bletchley made Class 5 is also Chinese.

 

[Wrench66]

Do people really prefer the Chinese greenbacks?? I have one and feel it’s to harsh when pushed. I bought a heritage greenback a few years ago, the 20 watt version, and I am really happy with it.

 

[mdubya]

And the G10F15 in my 2010 Bletchley made Class 5 is also Chinese.

If it makes you feel any better (it won't) my Class 5 sounded just as terrible through my Pulsonic G12Ms. Same goes for the Vox AC4 TV I had.

 

[EndGame00]

Do people really prefer the Chinese greenbacks?? I have one and feel it’s to harsh when pushed. I bought a heritage greenback a few years ago, the 20 watt version, and I am really happy with it.

I don't have the G12M20 to compare the Chinese Greenies....I've owned a pair of Heritage hz 55 (heavy magnet), and I really wanted to like them... It's the nasally honk I just couldn't deal with... The amp I use is a Fargen 68 Super Lead clone... The lack of bass resonance is another thing that puts me off.... The Greenie reissue sounded just perfect for the tone I want....

 

[ReWind James]

This video might be the biggest reason that people prefer the Chinese G12M over the others. In this vid, it sounds much much closer to the original Pulsonic cone G12M than the others.

This vid compares the China / UK G12Ms but doesn't include a vintage example.

Between those two vids, you can get a pretty good picture of how the two sit compared to an original.

If I remember correctly, I asked the creator of the second video if all the speakers were equally broken in and he said no, only one was. So, there's that.

EDIT: Yep, here's the comments about that:

4 months ago
Thanks for doing this. Was the made in China G12M broken in and the other UK made speakers brand new?


REPLY
thejay
4 months ago
the China made G12M speakers were more broken in than the UK at the time of the video

1

 

[efstop]

If it makes you feel any better (it won't) my Class 5 sounded just as terrible through my Pulsonic G12Ms. Same goes for the Vox AC4 TV I had.

The only thing going for my Class 5 is that it's first version, all original, and I don't think the speaker is broken in yet.

 

[zombiwoof]

I just thought it's worth mentioning that there are no more Chinese Greenbacks being made now, they are made in the UK currently (same parts/construction). So, I think we have to stop calling them Chinese GB's, maybe production GB vs. Heritage. I'm not sure if they are still making the Heritage G12M speakers now, does anyone know for sure?.
Al

 

[RAG7890]

Hi James, once again thanks. Great demo IMHO............a lot of work so

My thoughts: -

I preferred the Vintage Cone over both the current & Scumback.

I thought the differences were more apparent on the Tele vs. the Lester.

The Vintage Cone sounded "looser" to my ears. The current sounded brighter & the Scumback sounded a little fizzier.

The Vintage cone sounded warmer & seemed to have a lot more even order harmonics going on BUT I am sure that Cone has had way more hours on it and so that would also help.

The best pairing, IMHO, was the Vintage Cone + current............seemed to balance out well.

I listened ex my Dell (which is a current high end Laptop) & Sennheiser HG-215 Cans (which are pretty good for Guitar stuff but not perfect).

Yes it is a YT compressed clip but the same impact on all Cones, so overall a great guide.

I'll shoot you an Email on some other comments later today mate.

Cheers, Rudi

P. S. Didn't listen to the JS YT Clip because the Blue Frames are not as good as the current Black Frames and I just can't stand his Videos.

 

[ReWind James]

Thanks, Rudi. I tend to agree with your thoughts, having played them in person. For the rest of the readers, I'll share a little section of the email I sent you, which I think sums up my thoughts on the Pulsonic cone speakers very well:

The originals seem to have that very same thing going on that much great vintage gear has - PAFs, P-90s, early Marshall and Fender amps, even classic recording gear like the U47 mics, Neve preamps/EQs, Moog synths, etc. - they have that seemingly impossible combination of a big, fat, full sound that's simultaneously incredibly open and detailed with extreme clarity. That's the very thing that keeps me passionate about PAFs and I'd say the same thing applies to the 55Hz Pulsonic cone speakers (the H and the M, in this case).

 

[ReWind James]

Test rig and lab assistant.

 

[Wrench66]

I don't have a vintage greenback, so I can't compare it in person with the other speakers, and I find it difficult in some cases to get a feel for how a speaker will really sound being driven by my amp from a YouTube video. I bought the MIC greenback mainly due to cost and reviews. When first installed it sounded harsh and I thought it might just need to be broken in. A year in it still sounded unreasonably harsh, especially when pushed, so I spent the $$ and got a heritage greenback. The heritage doesn't sound harsh at all, but does add a pleasant texture to the tone when pushed which I absolutely love.

The amp is a Marshall 1974 clone that I built several years ago.

I have no idea which speaker might sound closer to a vintage greenback, but I prefer the heritage greenback. I still have the MIC greenback. I've installed it in a Mojotone tweed cab and drive it with my 5F1 clone.

 

[ReWind James]

I don't have a vintage greenback, so I can't compare it in person with the other speakers, and I find it difficult in some cases to get a feel for how a speaker will really sound being driven by my amp from a YouTube video. I bought the MIC greenback mainly due to cost and reviews. When first installed it sounded harsh and I thought it might just need to be broken in. A year in it still sounded unreasonably harsh, especially when pushed, so I spent the $$ and got a heritage greenback. The heritage doesn't sound harsh at all, but does add a pleasant texture to the tone when pushed which I absolutely love.

The amp is a Marshall 1974 clone that I built several years ago.

I have no idea which speaker might sound closer to a vintage greenback, but I prefer the heritage greenback. I still have the MIC greenback. I've installed it in a Mojotone tweed cab and drive it with my 5F1 clone.

Thanks. Which Heritage did you get? The G12M? Just thought that might be useful for anyone reading your comparison.

 

[Wrench66]

Thanks. Which Heritage did you get? The G12M? Just thought that might be useful for anyone reading your comparison.

G12M20

 

[Freddy G]

James! Thanks for doing this. So I skipped right to the reply button without reading anyone else's comments. At first with the tele I thought the Heritage Celestion sounded quite thin and jangly. In all clean tele offerings I thought the pulsonic and the Scumback sounded very similar.

BUT!

Once you hit them with distortion it was a totally different ballgame. That's when the two Celestions sounded more similar (and more desirable to my taste) than the Scumback.

So the winner for me is the Pulsonic, followed by the Heritage.

 

[zombiwoof]

James! Thanks for doing this. So I skipped right to the reply button without reading anyone else's comments. At first with the tele I thought the Heritage Celestion sounded quite thin and jangly. In all clean tele offerings I thought the pulsonic and the Scumback sounded very similar.

BUT!

Once you hit them with distortion it was a totally different ballgame. That's when the two Celestions sounded more similar (and more desirable to my taste) than the Scumback.

So the winner for me is the Pulsonic, followed by the Heritage.

And the Heritage will sound better and closer to the vintage when it is broken in (I am assuming it is not yet).
Al

 

[ReWind James]

And the Heritage will sound better and closer to the vintage when it is broken in (I am assuming it is not yet).
Al

They were all broken in. The Heritage G12H 55 was a 2014 model. The Scumback was a 2019 with the paid factory break-in and a few months of playing. The Pulsonic cone obviously had a little more use, being a bit older than even me.