Serious Greenback G12H 55Hz Comparison: Vintage Pulsonic, Scumback, Heritage

[ReWind James]

I put together a rather exhaustive comparison of a couple G12H 55Hz speakers, comparing two highly regarded "replicas" to the original Pulsonic cone Celestion version.

The tests are done with a 1959 style Telecaster, an R9 with real 1959 PAFs, and through a SLP and 1960B cab. The test tones portion was also run through a Fryette PS-2 power amp, for a more linear amplifier. Everything is explained pretty well in the intro of the video. There's a guitar audio section with the same take played though all the speakers at once, then separated in software for honest A/B comparisons without human error factor. After the audio, there is a section discussing a series of frequency response graphs made with both amps and two types of test tones.

Here's the spectrometer graphs from the video:

The following graphs show only the difference in frequency response between the modern replicas and original, via inverted phase summing.

Worth noting is that I have several of these Pulsonic cone G12H 55Hz speakers and did a similar comparison of just them to each other, to make sure I wasn't using some oddball that sounded different than average, before I selected one for these tests. All three vintage Celestion G12H 55Hz speakers sounded and graphed out exactly the same as each other, though, so there was really nothing to worry about, there.


Interestingly, as I was wrapping up the video production for this, Johan Segeborn posted a video doing a comparison of a Pulsonic cone G12M 55Hz to Scumback's version of the medium magnet 55Hz greenback, the M55. Here is that video:

EDIT: fixed broken image links

 

[RAG7890]

Can’t wait to have a listen tomorrow James, through Cabs. Many thanks, yet again Brother, for doing this comparison.



Cheers, Rudi

 

[ReWind James]

Thanks, Rudi!

btw - the settings on the 1959 SLP were:

All knobs as noon, channels jumped. The volumes were around 2-3 for the clean parts, then at 10 for the gainy parts.

I'm interested to hear others' thoughts on the results.

 

[nicolasrivera]

Wow great comparison, thank you.

 

[Gridlock]

Perfect timing, I’m thinking of buying a G12H30 Greenback (55 Hz) this week. Hoping that it adds some additional bottom-end to my new Marshall combo.

I’ll listen soon.
Thanks again.

 

[ReWind James]

Perhaps worth noting: all of the speakers were broken-in for the test.

 

[jhullin]

Very cool man! My speaker addiction is strong. Love trying different speakers in different amps and cabs. I'm especially fond of Scumbacks. I'm more of a medium magnet fan though. Good job on the video. What made you choose the 65w H55 nomex over a 25w kraft paper? Just curious

 

[ReWind James]

Very cool man! My speaker addiction is strong. Love trying different speakers in different amps and cabs. I'm especially fond of Scumbacks. I'm more of a medium magnet fan though. Good job on the video. What made you choose the 65w H55 nomex over a 25w kraft paper? Just curious

I spoke with Jim at Scumback, directly, and he selected that speaker as being his most accurate representation of the sound of original the Pulsonic 55Hz cone G12H 30W speakers. He was very insistent that this particular one was his absolute best work to date. I bought it only a month or so ago, at his recommendation.

If you like the medium magnet G12M speakers, check out Johan Segeborn's video that I linked above at the bottom of my OP. He compares an original to a Scumback, in that.

 

[jhullin]

Cool! Jim has always been spot on with speaker recommendations with me. I have yet to try the 25w kraft paper versions. I like the pvc models but only have 65w versions.

 

[jhullin]

If you like the medium magnet G12M speakers, check out Johan Segeborn's video that I linked above at the bottom of my OP. He compares an original to a Scumback, in that.

I had already seen that video. Johan always has interesting stuff. You're going to have to pick a catchphrase if you do more videos. You can't use "Today we are going to check out" or "Let's go".

 

[grumphh_the_banned_one]

Warning, subjective opinion alert.
Going by the video, out of those three the only acceptably sounding speaker (to me) is the modern Celestion - the vintage one is way to middy and lacks crispness, whereas the scumback is more or less scooped sounding.

Listened to on a proper home stereo, not headphones nor *yuck* computer speakers of any sort.

 

[Rocco Crocco]

That's a lot of work putting these comparison's together. A gave a quick 5 minute listen on the first video, with the Tele, and (initial reaction) I am surprised how different the Scumback sounds from the rest of the field. I listened on 5" JBL monitors.

I want to check out the rest later tonight and am interested in the results. Thanks for posting.

 

[Splattle101]

Wow, that's an excellent comparison! Great work (and a lot of it, too!).

 

[goldtop0]

Thanks James that's just an excellent A/B........thanks for taking the time to do this.
Yours is the only H 55hz comparison that has been made to date(that I can find) and reinforces for me the richness and sound texture of the old pulsonic cones.........thanks again.........much appreciated

Steve

 

[ReWind James]

Yours is the only H 55hz comparison that has been made to date

Thanks. That's exactly why I had to do it!

 

[ReWind James]

So, I didn't want to share my personal opinion in the video but I'll share it here with you guys, now that this has been up a few days and folks had a chance to listen on their own...

I think that neither the Scumback nor the Heritage did a decent job of recreating the sound of the original Pulsonic cone G12H 55Hz speakers, unfortunately.

I find the Scumback to sound thin and weak, way too scooped in the mids, fizzy on top, and also noticeably quieter than the other two. It has a bit more clarity and detail than the Heritage, but not nearly to the extent of the vintage Pulsonic cone speaker. Though a greater amount of detail and note separation is there, compared to the Heritage, it's tinny and brittle sounding compared to the original.

The Heritage has much more midrange and compression than the original. It lacks the clarity and detail of quieter passages and note separation that the other two had. However, I thought it was a very cool modern voicing with nice vocal qualities. I also thought it paired up well with the original in a stereo mix.

Those are my personal opinions based on the sound/feel, not the graphs. I listened on a number of playback systems and rooms including some nice large midfields, some very high end near fields, and several places I'm familiar with and regularly listen to music on. Of course, I also spent plenty of time playing them all in person. I had some colleagues at the recording / broadcast studio I volunteer at lend their ears in a blind test of just the raw audio clips before I made the video and there was full agreement: The Scumback didn't have as much midrange and balls or detail, compared to the original, and the Heritage had way too much midrange and also lacked detail.

It's worth mentioning that I've auditioned a number of greenback "replicas" and, though I think these two fell noticeably short, they are both much closer to the original voicing of a G12H 55Hz Pulsonic cone greenback than many others I've tried. I have yet to try an ASW speaker. I had planned on including one but couldn't get my hands on one. If someone has their take on a G12H 55Hz greenback, and wants to lone it out, I'll run the same tests on it and post an update here.

 

[mdubya]

Neither new speaker sounded bad until the vintage Pulsonic got played. Game over at that point.


FWIW-I have some early 90's G12M 75 greenbacks that I think compare favorably with my 1973 Pulsonic greyback G12M 75's.

Also, I have done quite a bit of in the room a/b-ing with my buddy that owns original plexis and has built the best sounding plexi clone I have played or heard (JTM50). At one point he had a quad of Weber G12M 75 clones that were just incredible sounding. I don't know if it was the room, or the '68 spec cabinets, or what. But I would go so far as to say they were the best sounding classic rock speakers I have ever heard. These were Ted Weber era speakers and my buddy was kind of vague on details (maybe he wasn't sure?).

I also can't say how they would have compared in a recording vs. the Pulsonic 55Hz used here.

But...maybe new reissues aren't where you should be looking?

For my $$$, if I am buying new, it is going to be WGS Green Beret on price alone. They don't sound like vintage greenbacks, but they cost a lot less than the others that don't sound like vintage greenbacks, either.


Here's the most blasphemous thing I can say: I have heard some vintage G12M impulse responses that sound better than modern G12M clone/reissues.

 

[EndGame00]

Owned a pair of Heritage 55hz....I find that I favor the Chinese Greenies over the Heritage using a Plexi....

 

[ReWind James]

Owned a pair of Heritage 55hz....I find that I favor the Chinese Greenies over the Heritage using a Plexi....

I think Celestion only makes a Chinese G12M, but not a G12H. I could be wrong, though. I suppose they do have the G12H 70's Anniversary (not a bad speaker) if that counts.

 

[EndGame00]

Heritage is made in UK... I bought a pair of them after hearing a few clips on utube .. George Metropoulos was using them on one of his Metro Plex demos... I thought it was going to have a good Bass resonance since the 55hz is a bass cone... I found them too nasally for my taste... I gave them a good beating (20 hours of loud playing time), I just couldn't get into them... The Chinese Greenies, surprisingly, sounded better to my ears....