Secondary control cavity route..how do YOU do it?

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
The angle is the important part. The thickness is irrelevant. The thickness does not change the angle just offsets the distance so you would need a longer bit.

Regards Peter.

PS - quick cad dwg - the thickness of the template itself doesn't make any difference. I have 3/8" shown. It could be 1/2" or 3/4" it would not change the angle.

View attachment 493175
Peter, that CAD drawing really helped me to understand. Tons of thanks!! Pictures and drawings are worth a thousand words!

Now I can *see* how the MDF thickness is irrelavent in regards to its ability to affect the stated angle. This is because The MDF itself is 'not' a wedge. Both sides of the MDF (upper and lower) are parallel to each other thus maintaining the 7-7.5° angle set by the wedges. Like both you and Daniel said, "The thickness of the MDF is irrelavent." In fact, hypothetically speaking, I can see how the MDF could be as thick as five inches and still not affect the angle route of 7 to 7.5 degrees set by the wedges.

Now I can clearly *see* why some mahogany remains after the cut.

I can also see how the results of the secondary-control-route seat the "upper pots" (closest to the bridge) very close to 90° to the carved top. Also the lower pots (closest to the edge of the body) are barely affected by the secondary-control-route.

Very good! Thank you Peter!
 

DaveR

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
552
Reaction score
917
Much respect to all the guys who pursue vintage correctness. I can appreciate it for sure! But if you’re not worried about vintage correct I STRONGLY suggest going back near the beginning of this thread and look at the drill press photo. That method couldn’t be simpler.

For the record I attempted to do the angled jig and I also bought the Bartlett plans for my first build. After spending at least a whole shop day making the jig and setting up for the cut only to realize that my longest router bit was too short and the whole rig scared the crap out of me....I said “to hell with it” and went for the drill press method. So simple. Only took minutes and the result was exactly what I needed. I could not care less about what the interior of the control cavity looks like.

I got it in my head that the wedge and jig method was the ONLY method and got lost in the rabbit hole. There’s always another way to do things. It just depends what result you’re after. If all you want is a decent looking guitar where the knobs sit perpendicular to the carve you’ve already got your answer and no need to make wedges or jigs. From some of your other comments in other threads I get the impression that’s what you’re after. However if you want a vintage correct ‘59 burst, then by all means follow the instructions laid out here. Peter and Daniel really know their stuff!
 

nuance97

Silver Supporting Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
2,665
Reaction score
2,167
@RibbonCurl i pulled this from the plans sticky at the top of the page. It should make it all crystal clear (how I do it at least)
Okay now that I have finally had the chance to build a body with these plans I can address this:

Obviously I wasn’t present when Scott cut his secondary control angled route, but I suspect his issue was that he oriented the template flush around the perimeter. Because of the angles involved you have to offset the template like so:
View attachment 481585
View attachment 481586
this ^^ is underneath the side opposite the route


oh and while we are talking template I like that I added hinges to my current one. I can use the rest of the body as a clamping flap
View attachment 481592
When oriented like this it will leave you with the correct shape without modifying the template as he described
View attachment 481587
View attachment 481588
View attachment 481589
Ready to me finished off with a 1” spotface

View attachment 481590
Once I drill the holes and add the counterbores it’ll be a dead-ringer for a vintage cavity
View attachment 481607
see below ;)
View attachment 481641

The really eagle-eyed viewer could probably guess what’s different in the back view of the whole body above than our plan. Can you spot it??
@danigalapago I’ll elaborate a bit with pics.
Step 1: drill out all through holes for pots and 3-way with a 13/64” drill bit (one size bigger than the 3/16” pilot for the counterbores)

Step 2: hold the body like so when counterboring for the pots (I’m pressing and holding very firmly with my left hand making sure the edge of the body is tight to the table)
View attachment 481780
a view from under so you can see the ramping effect
View attachment 481778

It was at this point I realized that the two volume pot holes needed to be enlarged slightly so the spotface would contact the cavity walls to make the proper “chew” marks. It’s impossible to know how big the holes were at the factory, but they were probably bigger than 13/64”?? Maybe

(This step ^^ is totally unnecessary to the functionality, but to those who are striving for absolute vintage accuracy it’s a must).

The final size of the pot holes should be something around .38-.39” so ream the holes as needed so long as you don’t exceed .39” holes

Step 4: the 3-way switch...you’ll need a 3/4” spotface for this one (which you probably already have for the trussrod access). Similarly the top carve creates the proper angle for you just put the pilot through the 7/32” pilot hole and bore until you kiss the maple like so:
View attachment 481779
Then enlarge with a reamer or step drillbit to 1/2” for your through hole

That should make clear any confusion
 

nuance97

Silver Supporting Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
2,665
Reaction score
2,167
If you clink the link here (orange arrow) it’ll take you to the original post where the pics show properly
553F18C6-D58E-4087-BC3C-94749C6D8101.jpeg
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
Gentlemen,

1) What 'type' and 'size' router bit is required to complete the task of the secondary control route based on a 1/2" MDF template ?

2) Is 1/2" MDF recommended for the secondary control route jig or 3/8" MDF? Anything less would obviously flex under the weight of the router?

2) Do I use a fixed router or a plunge router (I own both)?

Thank you
Thank you
 

nuance97

Silver Supporting Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
2,665
Reaction score
2,167
Gentlemen,

1) What 'type' and 'size' router bit is required to complete the task of the secondary control route based on a 1/2" MDF template ?

2) Is 1/2" MDF recommended for the secondary control route jig or 3/8" MDF? Anything less would obviously flex under the weight of the router?

2) Do I use a fixed router or a plunge router (I own both)?

Thank you
Thank you
I have a 3/4” (1/2” shank) bit that is super long...the cutter is 3” long and the shank is probably 2 or 2.5” so like 5” overall. Matching 3/4” bearings to go with it

I think 1/2” MDF is perfect

I use a fixed base router. No need to plunge
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
Much respect to all the guys who pursue vintage correctness. I can appreciate it for sure! But if you’re not worried about vintage correct I STRONGLY suggest going back near the beginning of this thread and look at the drill press photo. That method couldn’t be simpler.

For the record I attempted to do the angled jig and I also bought the Bartlett plans for my first build. After spending at least a whole shop day making the jig and setting up for the cut only to realize that my longest router bit was too short and the whole rig scared the crap out of me....I said “to hell with it” and went for the drill press method. So simple. Only took minutes and the result was exactly what I needed. I could not care less about what the interior of the control cavity looks like.

I got it in my head that the wedge and jig method was the ONLY method and got lost in the rabbit hole. There’s always another way to do things. It just depends what result you’re after. If all you want is a decent looking guitar where the knobs sit perpendicular to the carve you’ve already got your answer and no need to make wedges or jigs. From some of your other comments in other threads I get the impression that’s what you’re after. However if you want a vintage correct ‘59 burst, then by all means follow the instructions laid out here. Peter and Daniel really know their stuff!
Appreciate your suggestions DaveR. That was certainly an interesting read. Will keep it in mind. Thank you!
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
I have a 3/4” (1/2” shank) bit that is super long...the cutter is 3” long and the shank is probably 2 or 2.5” so like 5” overall. Matching 3/4” bearings to go with it

I think 1/2” MDF is perfect

I use a fixed base router. No need to plunge
Ok, that is a big help. Appreciate the support! Thank you.
 

ARandall

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
14,854
Reaction score
11,276
And of course you must make sure your carve is as complete as possible......only finish grit sanding left to do. That way you will know how deep to go. You are mainly making sure the short shaft pots have enough top clearance to get on washers and knobs comfortably.
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
And of course you must make sure your carve is as complete as possible......only finish grit sanding left to do. That way you will know how deep to go. You are mainly making sure the short shaft pots have enough top clearance to get on washers and knobs comfortably.
That was my concern ... just how deep do I go with the router bit if utilizing the jig and wedge(s) method?
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
When routing the secondary control route, was the top already carved?? If so, how do you keep the uneven non-flat under-surface stable while performing the secondary control route? Its already a pretty shaky manuever to begin with besides having to deal with an uneven base to work on. Thank you.
 

WhiteEpiLP

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
1,594
Reaction score
1,230
Yes the top has to be carved and you should either measure it’s thickness with an outside caliper or spot drill the pot holes with a 1/8 bit to know the thickness. You need to take enough material for short shaft pots to fit, they have 3/8” of threads so around 1/4” is the final thickness I go for.
As for supporting the body during routing, I’d suggest making the router box that many on here use, then you can place little blocks in the bottom to shim the body up off the carve top. Also the box makes routing the neck and pickup plane easy as well as the neck mortise.
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
Yes the top has to be carved and you should either measure it’s thickness with an outside caliper or spot drill the pot holes with a 1/8 bit to know the thickness. You need to take enough material for short shaft pots to fit, they have 3/8” of threads so around 1/4” is the final thickness I go for.
As for supporting the body during routing, I’d suggest making the router box that many on here use, then you can place little blocks in the bottom to shim the body up off the carve top. Also the box makes routing the neck and pickup plane easy as well as the neck mortise.
Thank you WhiteEpiLP. Lots of very helpful info and advice. Where do I find pics/plans on how to make this router box? Obviously my other main concerns (besides the secondary control route) are how to successfully cut the neck pocket angle and pickup plane angle. I have seen photos but nothing detailed enough to give me confidence in building a successful router box. Thank you again!
 

WhiteEpiLP

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
1,594
Reaction score
1,230
This is the thread that shows the box jig, @pshupe can send you detailed plans or you can just make one from the basic dimensions from the thread. Big thanks again to Peter for his time and effort to put together the plans in a proper file.
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
This is the thread that shows the box jig, @pshupe can send you detailed plans or you can just make one from the basic dimensions from the thread. Big thanks again to Peter for his time and effort to put together the plans in a proper file.
Thank you again WhiteEpiLP. I was curious if Peter may have created a drawing on this topic since he is the CAD guy. You beat me to it. Thanks again.
 

RibbonCurl

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
This is the thread that shows the box jig, @pshupe can send you detailed plans or you can just make one from the basic dimensions from the thread. Big thanks again to Peter for his time and effort to put together the plans in a proper file.
Thanks again WhiteEpiLP. I'm kinda' getting off topic here in regards to the box-jig but as simply letting you know that I PM'ed @pshupe in regards to the pdf's he is kindly offering on the box-jig. Also interested in how to use the box-jig for routing the pickup-plane-angle and neck-pocket-angle.
 

pshupe

Silver Supporting Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
4,450
The box jig allows you to place templates inside a rectangular recess to use a pattern bit to cut out the outline of the template at a certain depth. It also allows you to adjust the angle so you can cut the neck pocket, pup routes, and neck angle at the desired angle. You can adjust the angle to cut the pickup plane as well. The box is hinged so you can adjust the angle by lifting the box to the correct angle and then route. I also made templates to fit in the box to cut the carve steps for the carve top, control cavity, wire channel, switch routes and cover routes. You do not really need to use the box jig for this as they could just be fixed to the top or back of the body. There are lots of threads showing how this is used.

Here are images of the box jigs that I sent. They also exist in the linked thread above.
boxjig-3d.jpg


box-jig Plan.jpg


box-jig section.jpg


box-jig side elev.jpg


Here are all the templates I made up to fit in the box. Some have the box angled, most have it flat.

templates-for-boxjig.jpg


Regards Peter.
 


Latest Threads



Top