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Deus Vult

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On a purely philosophical or idealist level rather than the normal pragmatic one..... how is one really free if having to live in a society that demands you having to do things that you are not passionate about, or can't make use of your natural talents, etc etc and therefore live a somewhat miserable, unrealized existence?

I've always kinda wondered about how many people are so vocal about 'freedom' from governmental type tyranny but say nary a word about economic and/or social tyranny.

Like i said.... I know the answer in pragmatic, real world terms. However, as a purely philosophical type exercise, in think it's a valid question, imo

You certainly raise a good philosophical point. I think the reality is that freedom is compromised by the social construct of society. One must, perhaps unwillingly, sacrifice some personal liberty to enjoy the benefits of said society. I don't have a problem with someone following their heart/dream. In fact I admire it. But at the same time, don't cry about your student loans or how you can't afford to rent an apartment when you spent $150k on a degree in English.

Most "anti govt" types that I know support the right of someone to follow their dream. They just don't want to be on the hook if that dream isn't realized or profitable at govt gunpoint.
 

TheX

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I guess joining the military at 17 gave me a different perspective than some. I think all 18-year-old citizens should have to join.
 

SWeAT hOg

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Great story. I love it.



Anyone volunteering to join the armed forces is automatically exempt from my wild-ass generalization.:)



Combination of factors. The helicopter parent does help kids not learn how to take care of themselves. I understand protecting them, but there is a point where you get diminishing returns.

Thank you, good sir. :thumb: And your helicopter parent comment is spot on.
 

LtDave32

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And not to rub it in, but to re-enforce the point; they were often conscripted at gun point.
 

Marshall & Moonshine

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I guess joining the military at 17 gave me a different perspective than some. I think all 18-year-old citizens should have to join.

Conscript armies are useless.

I don't know about useless. It works pretty well for Israel. I would be quite happy to see some mandatory service, either military or a peaceful organization, like peace corp or maybe something infrastructure related. Even if it's forestry work, work with utilities or emergency services, it would provide a very useful experience, how to show up on time and dressed for work, and it could very well provide for their college education. Maybe even more. Don't threaten them with jail if they bail on it, but hold out federal benefits in some way if they don't.
We have a nation of soft-in-the-belly, entitled sh!ts who've never worked for anything in their lives. I know I'm painting broadly, but I think most would agree, and all sides have been heard on that argument already. I know it's looking to grow govt more than I usually would like, but this could really do a lot of good, outside of the military, quite possibly for much less money. Some govt contracts can get a little out of hand. Make these organizations something that if people want to "stay in", they can advance and get paid according to merit, but make two years mandatory.
I know it would never happen, but I can dream.
 

MichaelAndrew3435

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That's not the point, the work ethic and discipline are the point. Not everyone gets it.

You can learn good discipline and work ethic through good parenting, playing a sport, etc.

I don't know if we'll ever see another draft in our lifetime. I mentioned earlier that joining the military isn't as easy as the average person would think, mainly due to limited positions available. For WWII, the draft was nessesary. Vietnam not so much. I don't support what we do overseas now and I surely would hate to see 18 year old kids sent to fight against their will for a cause I'm not sure actually exists.

Mandatory service could potentially be beneficial assuming we're not at war, or the mandatory positions could be something other than being on the front lines.
 

Fritz

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I guess joining the military at 17 gave me a different perspective than some. I think all 18-year-old citizens should have to join.

I had a new boss who said that to me once (he was new, I'd been there for 6 years). Shortly after he said it, he began to act like a sergeant toward me (we were the only two in our department). After 8 months of abuse I'd gathered enough evidence against him to file a harassment charge, and I had him fired. When they did it, they escorted him out of the building and he screamed like a child all the way down the hall.

I think it's great that you military guys have great memories of your experiences in the military. 'Just don't go pushing that crap on me, daddy-o'.
 

LtDave32

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I had a new boss who said that to me once (he was new, I'd been there for 6 years). Shortly after he said it, he began to act like a sergeant toward me (we were the only two in our department). After 8 months of abuse I'd gathered enough evidence against him to file a harassment charge, and I had him fired. When they did it, they escorted him out of the building and he screamed like a child all the way down the hall.

I think it's great that you military guys have great memories of your experiences in the military. Just don't go pushing that crap on me, daddy-o.

Nobody is, pickle-o.

Your application -Summarily rejected.
 

MichaelAndrew3435

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Yeah, that is NOT happening. My point stands.

Well what type of mandatory service did you have in mind? Just being in the military or sent to the front lines? If I'm someone who volunteered to be in the service, I surely wouldn't want to put my life in the hands of someone who didn't want to be there.
 

chasenblues

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I had a new boss who said that to me once (he was new, I'd been there for 6 years). Shortly after he said it, he began to act like a sergeant toward me (we were the only two in our department). After 8 months of abuse I'd gathered enough evidence against him to file a harassment charge, and I had him fired. When they did it, they escorted him out of the building and he screamed like a child all the way down the hall.

I think it's great that you military guys have great memories of your experiences in the military. 'Just don't go pushing that crap on me, daddy-o'.

So you were a SJW before there were SJW's..
 

jeff_farkas

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Well what type of mandatory service did you have in mind? Just being in the military or sent to the front lines? If I'm someone who volunteered to be in the service, I surely wouldn't want to put my life in the hands of someone who didn't want to be there.

Not every potion in the military is a front line one. There are a lot of non combat positions available so if you were in a front line role you might not have that concern.

And keep in mind that mandatory service worked well for the guys in WWI,WWII,, Korea and Vietnam. I bet many of those guys didn't want to be there but they did their best to not let their buddies down.
 
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