RS Wiring?

FourT6and2

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Sorry if this has been asked. But why do the "modern" kits from RS Guitarworks come wired with the caps between the tone pots' lug and ground, instead of from the tone pot's lug to the volume pot's lug? Doesn't look like it's wired the same as a typical "modern" wiring scheme that Gibson uses.
 

FourT6and2

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Surely others have noticed this too? Most refer to "modern" as this:

wiringModern.jpg


But it looks like RS wires their stuff like this (I left out the grounding wire):

rs_by_haftelm-d54f01f.jpg


Just wondering how the end result (tone and how the pots interact) differ.
 

FourT6and2

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Just realized this is the way Seymour Duncan diagrams are wired as well, with the cap wired from tone pot's middle lug to the back of the tone pot. Never noticed this before. I guess either version is still "modern" wiring. More than one way to skin a cat I guess?
 

Papa

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FourT6and2,

O.K. I'll go there.
As far as I can see (for a Les Paul) they (RS) offer two Pre-wired kits that are wired the way you are describing:
Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Long Shaft
RS Guitarworks Online Store : Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Long Shaft - PWPREMMODKIT-LS
and
Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Short Shaft
http://store.rsguitarworks.net/PWPREMMODKIT-SS.html

The Vintage Modern ( short and long) are wired as the traditional diagrams.
So are the 50's setups.

The diagram you show with the cap wired to the back of the pot is normally used in production by Epiphone and on many Gibsons. (not to mention many other companies)

And yes, It is also a common setup for "Modern" that is diagrammed on many sites including Seymour Duncan, Guitar Electronics and many others.

You are correct: There is more than one way to skin your X.

As to sound:
I do not find that much difference between one "modern style wiring" and another.
They seem to maintain the same characteristics unless you add a treble bleed.

As you reduce the volume the tone begins to darken.

I also do not like the overall characteristics of "Modern"...but... that is a personal preference.

Papa
 

FourT6and2

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FourT6and2,

O.K. I'll go there.
As far as I can see (for a Les Paul) they (RS) offer two Pre-wired kits that are wired the way you are describing:
Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Long Shaft
RS Guitarworks Online Store : Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Long Shaft - PWPREMMODKIT-LS
and
Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Short Shaft
RS Guitarworks Online Store : Pre-Wired Premium Modern Electronics Upgrade Kit- Short Shaft - PWPREMMODKIT-SS

The Vintage Modern ( short and long) are wired as the traditional diagrams.
So are the 50's setups.

The diagram you show with the cap wired to the back of the pot is normally used in production by Epiphone and on many Gibsons. (not to mention many other companies)

And yes, It is also a common setup for "Modern" that is diagrammed on many sites including Seymour Duncan, Guitar Electronics and many others.

You are correct: There is more than one way to skin your X.

As to sound:
I do not find that much difference between one "modern style wiring" and another.
They seem to maintain the same characteristics unless you add a treble bleed.

As you reduce the volume the tone begins to darken.

I also do not like the overall characteristics of "Modern"...but... that is a personal preference.

Papa

That's what I thought. But I've been emailing RS back and forth and they've said that "their" way of wiring the "modern" setup is NOT the same as the typical Gibson "modern" wiring that everyone knows about. While, yes, it is not wired the same, it is the same electrically speaking, right? i.e. there's more than one way to skin a cat.

That's why I'm asking if there's an actual sonic difference between the normal Gibson modern scheme and the RS version.

Because they've told me that their modern kit retains the highs just like 50's wiring. Which I find strange...
 

Papa

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Well, I'm gonna take a wild guess here.

Personally I would like to try both their "Premium vintage modern" and their "premium modern" and see what the difference is. Frankly, I think they explain it quite well in their description. They say that the vintage is warmer.
(The vintage is where they cross over between the volume and tone with the caps.) O.K....makes sense.

This I can believe. The thing is that I like 50's wiring so I have no real interest in doing a test.

Now!!! What I do find interesting is the following statement about loss of tone during "volume roll off".... and I quote:
"This kit is also great for those who are tired of losing tone and note-definition every time they roll their control past 8!!"

This statement (as it was replied to you) is included in the description of both modern wiring systems.
I would attribute that to the fact that RS uses very high quality "Superpot" volumes. (Normally around a 28% taper) I would also attribute it to the fact that they use .022 caps for the bridge pickup and .015 for the neck.

With the slower, more tapered roll off of the volumes they will, of course, not darken up as quick. Additionally, the brige position is always quite bright.
With the .015 cap in the neck position (along with the more tapered roll off) this would help keep the volumes from darkening up the sound too quickly.

Maybe that is why Epiphone (and often Gibson) use Linear (50% taper) volume pots?

In the long run I would attribute most of their claims to the tapers of their pots and the values and "types" of their caps.

This is, of course, all speculation and a wild guess.

Papa
 

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