Reverse Engineering an Ibanez Super 70

[bill m]

Ok everyone, as promised, here is the reverse engineering of a 1976 Ibanez Super 70 pickup. I only had time today to only do all of the electrical and magnetic measurements. Hopefully I'll have a bit of time tomorrow to record a sound sample, then the destruction will begin.

The intent of this reverse engineering is for me to be able to make Super 70 clones and it is important that they sound just like the originals. A lot of members seem to have some interest in these pickups, so here it goes.

All measurements were taken at 68 degrees.


First is the DC resistance reading. This one comes in at 7.71k ohms

Here I am using an LCR meter where the Inductance is 3.746 henries and the smaller display is showing the AC Resistance, 10.94k ohms (which is very important).

Second set of readings from the LCR meter are, Capacitance- 6.71nf, or .00671uf. The small display is reading Q, or Quality at 2.174

This photo is of my gauss meter readings at the screws, 449 gauss. The slugs were 495 gauss. These readings are just average as each pole screw and each slug will read differently.

This photo is of the gauss directly on the A8 magnet, measured at the center of the magnet. North side 919 gauss, south side 890 gauss.

Tomorrow I will record the sound reference sample and maybe start to unwind the coils to get Turns Per Layer, Total turns count, and measure wire thickness. After that a screw, slug, and keeper will be sent out for metal analysis.

 

[ReWind James]

Strong magnet!

 

[The Thruth]

Nice thread, hey bill where can i buy this gauss meter?

 

[geetarfreek82]

Strong magnet!

It's actually nowhere near fully charged!

 

[BrazenPicker]

Good idea. With so many PAF clones already out there, why not also clone some other popular pickups? Another great candidate would be the Greco/Maxon Dry-Z pickups.

 

[LtKojak]

Another great candidate would be the Greco/Maxon Dry-Z pickups.

But... these are PAF clones. What's the point of cloning a clone...?

 

[geetarfreek82]

But... these are PAF clones. What's the point of cloning a clone...?

Plus they are probably only a Super 70 with a different magnet anyway!

 

[bill m]

Nice thread, hey bill where can i buy this gauss meter?

Thank You, My meter is the Alpha Labs Model 1-ST.

DC Gaussmeter MOD1 Fluxmeter Magnetometer Tesla Meter | eBay

 

[bill m]

It's actually nowhere near fully charged!

You are correct. It does charge a bit higher and I will listen to it with the mag fully charged, and in its current state to hear the tone difference. I bet it will sound better with the lower gauss, and if it does that is the way I will reproduce the clones.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Didn't at least some of the Super 70's have A8's? That might explain the strong gauss.

 

[bill m]

Didn't at least some of the Super 70's have A8's? That might explain the strong gauss.

I know all of them from the 70's did have A8 mags. I don't know about the later ones. I may have a problem sourcing the proper dimension mag as the one in this super 70 is way thick and has 2 oversized spacers. The keeper bar is standard thicknes (.125") and doesn't touch the baseplate or the bottom of the bobbin.

 

[ReWind James]

Can you grind down a square rod magnet to size before charging it?

 

[bill m]

I don't have the equipment to accurately grind alnico mags. Just beveling strat and tele mags kills a grinding wheel real fast.

 

[captcoolaid]

The super 70 which they stopped production on or at least changed them to the Super 80 in 1978. Both use the over sized A8. If memory serves the only real difference in the 2 is the total number of turns. The Super 80s were up in the low 8k range where as the super 70s was closer 7.6 and 7.8k for neck and bridge.


Also another thing i would like to add here is the fact that there were 2 different base plates used. The standard single hole claw and the one side single and the other double. I think that the double claws were introduced to the Artist series in the first part of 77 or maybe even the later part of 76. This also may be a dead give away of the manufacturer of these pups. Not all plates carry the name and the number system on the bottom of the plates changed from the 14 hundreds to the 17 hundreds like the ones Bill has. The Super 80s start with a 19 hundred designation and continue all the way up to 27 hundred. The ones that are called PAF clones have the standard plates and the hot rod version carry a shorter plate.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[bill m]

Thanks Rayne. You da man!!!

Ok I was playing the super 70 in my les paul. First with the magnet as is, then with the mag fully charged. I was correct, I like it with it slightly degaussed, as it was a little more dynamic and just made you want to dig in.

No time tonight to start the destruction and unwind the coils, but I think I may have a little time tomorrow to do so as I'll be probably snowed in..

 

[captcoolaid]

Billy I have a line on a Super 80 for cheap. Broken coil gonna check it out to see if in fact the mags are the same.

 

[geetarfreek82]

From all the Ibanez literature I've seen the Super 80's are ceramic. Also, based on info from archived Ibanez catalogs, the Super 70 went right up to 1984, but from 1978 on it had a short brass baseplate with two height screw holes on one side, as opposed to the nickel silver paf style baseplate. Magnets in the 80's Super 70's are also said to be ceramic as well

 

[captcoolaid]

Hmmmm. I have never seen a super 70s from 77 on stock. If you look at the Artists from 78 on that came stock with the super 80s. That being said and here is the conundrum, My cousin just got an 81 Artist with super 70s in it. Now i am confused as hell on these. I wonder if batches and parts got mixed as far as plates because his black artist has the standard base plate in it.

 

[geetarfreek82]

Hmmmm. I have never seen a super 70s from 77 on stock.

Mine is a '77... The second number in the ink stamp is the year, 7 = 77. The Super 80's were almost always a double slug pickup under a cover with no screw holes... Like the "Flying Finger" pickups (mostly in Ibanez Iceman and the fancier Artists and LP copies). Super 70's were available in Artists and Blazer models until '84, and they were almost always either double creme exposed coils or gold covered.

 

[captcoolaid]

So they ran both all the way until 84. Hmmm cool