Retail Prices, Current MIJ vs Current MIM

[HenryHill]

Can someone help me get my head around this?

Everyone knows that build quality from Japan production was at least equal to that of MIA, but better hardware and electronics were withheld to force purists to buy MIA.

I've heard that Fender went to Japan to have lower build costs, but then had to stop as the cost was close to that of the MIA's.

They went to Mexico in '90, and pulled production out of Japan in the late 90's, right?

So how is it then, that you can now buy import MIJ's for about the same as you can MIM's, made what, 50 miles over the border?

Here's a '58 RI 'CIJ' strat for $750.
FENDER® 2013 LIMITED EDITION '58 STRATOCASTER® - Elderly Instruments

Here's a '54 RI 'CIJ' strat, ash, for $999.

FENDER® 2013 LIMITED EDITION '54 STRATOCASTER® - Elderly Instruments

How is it affordable to build them and import them now, but it wasn't at the end of the 90's, or since then?

New, warrantied MIJ RI's for the price of similar MIM's?

And the MIJ's are LE, and limited quantities, too.

Am I seeing this correctly?

 

[colchar]

Lower shipping costs? Lower material costs? Or something like that, maybe.

 

[RaSTuS26]

Probably different currency exchange rates too.

 

[Gooner]

Henry, here's an article that sheds some light on the reasons for the existence of Fender Japan and the introduction of the MIM series as a cost cutting exercise.


The Fender Japan Story

The Fender Stratocaster is arguably the most popular electric guitar design ever. Almost certainly it is the most copied. The copies had always been considerably cheaper than the 'real thing', but by the early 1980's they were also often of a high standard. Bad news for Fender who, under CBS ownership, had let standards slip. Fender's reputation and market share were waning.

In 1981, a new management team largely recruited from Yamaha's American operation, decided on a two pronged attack. They would address quality control via a programme of reinvestment and staff training in the US, and at the same time hit the copyists in their home market by producing Fender guitars in Japan.

Following negotiations with two Japanese distribution companies, Kanda Shokai and Yamano Music, Fender Japan was established in March 1982. Fender held 38 percent of the stock, occupied three of the six board seats and, of course, owned the all important product licenses. Fuji Gen-Gakki, best known for building Ibanez brand guitars, were chosen to build Fender Japan instruments.

Back in the USA, in an effort to rediscover what had made Fender's reputation, the company went to vintage dealers and took measurements from pre-CBS production instruments. They even spent $5600 on buying a '57 Precision bass, '60 Jazz bass and a '61 Strat. Both the US factory at Fullerton and Fender Japan set about producing vintage reissues- in fact the Japanese were the first to succeed and the superb quality of their instruments resulted in the famous quote by Dan Smith, Director of Marketing, Electric Guitars at the time :"Everybody came up to inspect them and the guys almost cried, because the Japanese product was so good - it was what we had been having a hell of a time trying to do."
.

Originally the idea had been for Fender Japan to produce guitars for their home market. However, when Fender's European distributors called for budget Fenders to compete with the flood of oriental imports effecting their sales, a range of lower price guitars was launched under the Squier brand. Squier guitars are outside the scope of this site- suffice it to say that they are a good buy for the price, with early Japanese made instruments being of particularly good quality.

In 1984 CBS decided to get out of the musical instrument business and sold Fender to an investment group led by Bill Schultz, the incumbent President of Fender Musical Instruments. The Fullerton factory was not part of the deal and US production ceased in February 1985. Towards the end of that year a new factory was established at nearby Corona, but for a while the 'new' Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) pretty much relied upon Japanese production. In fact it has been estimated that as many as 80% of the guitars sold in the US between late 1984 and mid-86 were sourced from Fender Japan.

Although Fender Japan still exists, their guitars (aside from a very few special models which do not conflict with the existing US/Mexican range) are no longer officially exported to the US or Europe Those markets are catered for by FMIC's US and Mexican factories. However, because of their justly deserved reputation for quality, the many Japanese instruments floating around on the secondhand market, particularly the Stratocasters, are becoming sought after. The point of this site (if it could be said to have one) is simply to look at the range of different Stratocasters produced in Japan for export and, perhaps, answer some of the questions that may arise when confronted by a Strat bearing a 'Made in Japan' or 'Crafted in Japan' label.'


I have a MIJ and a CIJ, both great quality, the CIJ 62 reissue came with Texas Specials,(now sporting CS69's) the only thing I would contemplate doing now is improving the trem system with a Callaham, but I'm happy as it is at the moment.

 

[budg]

I find it interesting that Fender chooses to embrace the MIJ and MIM line and continue to add to the quality when Gibson appears to do the opposite. They keep the Epiphone name and keep the quality WELL below that of Most Gibsons so as to not hurt the Gibson product.

 

[ddroz60lp]

All I know is that I just took in a 2013 MIJ 58 reissue that smokes any Usa reissue that I have ever owned or played. Fretwork, neck pocket and finish work is outstanding.I have owned three Avri Strats and played dozens. I have not tried the U.S.A reissues of late.They could be a game changer. All things considered,the pickups and pots are shit. I think mine will be a real keeper when I get that worked out.

 

[HenryHill]

Henry, here's an article that sheds some light on the reasons for the existence of Fender Japan and the introduction of the MIM series as a cost cutting exercise.


The Fender Japan Story

The Fender Stratocaster is arguably the most popular electric guitar design ever. Almost certainly it is the most copied. The copies had always been considerably cheaper than the 'real thing', but by the early 1980's they were also often of a high standard. Bad news for Fender who, under CBS ownership, had let standards slip. Fender's reputation and market share were waning.

In 1981, a new management team largely recruited from Yamaha's American operation, decided on a two pronged attack. They would address quality control via a programme of reinvestment and staff training in the US, and at the same time hit the copyists in their home market by producing Fender guitars in Japan.

Following negotiations with two Japanese distribution companies, Kanda Shokai and Yamano Music, Fender Japan was established in March 1982. Fender held 38 percent of the stock, occupied three of the six board seats and, of course, owned the all important product licenses. Fuji Gen-Gakki, best known for building Ibanez brand guitars, were chosen to build Fender Japan instruments.

Back in the USA, in an effort to rediscover what had made Fender's reputation, the company went to vintage dealers and took measurements from pre-CBS production instruments. They even spent $5600 on buying a '57 Precision bass, '60 Jazz bass and a '61 Strat. Both the US factory at Fullerton and Fender Japan set about producing vintage reissues- in fact the Japanese were the first to succeed and the superb quality of their instruments resulted in the famous quote by Dan Smith, Director of Marketing, Electric Guitars at the time :"Everybody came up to inspect them and the guys almost cried, because the Japanese product was so good - it was what we had been having a hell of a time trying to do."
.

Originally the idea had been for Fender Japan to produce guitars for their home market. However, when Fender's European distributors called for budget Fenders to compete with the flood of oriental imports effecting their sales, a range of lower price guitars was launched under the Squier brand. Squier guitars are outside the scope of this site- suffice it to say that they are a good buy for the price, with early Japanese made instruments being of particularly good quality.

In 1984 CBS decided to get out of the musical instrument business and sold Fender to an investment group led by Bill Schultz, the incumbent President of Fender Musical Instruments. The Fullerton factory was not part of the deal and US production ceased in February 1985. Towards the end of that year a new factory was established at nearby Corona, but for a while the 'new' Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) pretty much relied upon Japanese production. In fact it has been estimated that as many as 80% of the guitars sold in the US between late 1984 and mid-86 were sourced from Fender Japan.

Although Fender Japan still exists, their guitars (aside from a very few special models which do not conflict with the existing US/Mexican range) are no longer officially exported to the US or Europe Those markets are catered for by FMIC's US and Mexican factories. However, because of their justly deserved reputation for quality, the many Japanese instruments floating around on the secondhand market, particularly the Stratocasters, are becoming sought after. The point of this site (if it could be said to have one) is simply to look at the range of different Stratocasters produced in Japan for export and, perhaps, answer some of the questions that may arise when confronted by a Strat bearing a 'Made in Japan' or 'Crafted in Japan' label.'


I have a MIJ and a CIJ, both great quality, the CIJ 62 reissue came with Texas Specials,(now sporting CS69's) the only thing I would contemplate doing now is improving the trem system with a Callaham, but I'm happy as it is at the moment.

Oh yeah, I've seen this before.

I have one each, a Fender and a Fender Squier, and TBH, I see nothing different in terms of quality of the build, just a difference in electronics and a couple of pieces of the hardware. The Gotoh's on the Fender are nice, but Fender tuners on the Squier are great too. The Squier has the stamped buterfly sting trees, as compared to the roller type ones on the Fender, but the trems appear to be identical, as are the bodies and necks.

I haven't pulled the PG's to check to see what's in each, as I've heard that some early ones had US pups, but neither is horrible and look how many people buy new MIA's and change pups anyway.

 

[HenryHill]

All I know is that I just took in a 2013 MIJ 58 reissue that smokes any Usa reissue that I have ever owned or played. Fretwork, neck pocket and finish work is outstanding.I have owned three Avri Strats and played dozens. I have not tried the U.S.A reissues of late.They could be a game changer. All things considered,the pickups and pots are shit. I think mine will be a real keeper when I get that worked out.

I think Fender MIA should be embarrassed that Fender Japan has consistently shown them up.

My nearly 30 year old E6xxxx Fender Squire and F0xxxx Fender are awesome, and I'm not at all surprised the new ones are too.

Congrats on the NG.

 

[AccustomedtoStandards]

Probably different currency exchange rates too.

I think this definitely plays a part. The Yen is lower than it has been in quite a while.

Look at the 2014 Ibanez lineup. They have Japanese-made Prestige models for below $1,000 (well, $999) for the first time in a loooong time.

 

[LesLuvva]

I'm not so sure it's a matter of MIJ pricing coming down as much as it's MIM pricing coming up. The Road Worn series, and 60th Anniversary Classic Player strat are hovering around $1000 now. Normal MIM Classic Player Series have been $800 for years now.

 

[HenryHill]

I'm not so sure it's a matter of MIJ pricing coming down as much as it's MIM pricing coming up. The Road Worn series, and 60th Anniversary Classic Player strat are hovering around $1000 now. Normal MIM Classic Player Series have been $800 for years now.

Yeah, MIM has gotten pretty expensive and while nice, few will say they are equal to MIA or MIJ quality, yet the MIJ's now coming in are a steal, for cheap.

I'd love to see a normal MIJ option for Fender, rather than just these limited offerings.

 

[LesLuvva]

On the other hand, the MIJ prices are VERY reasonable. I played their limited edition 52 Telecaster last week; pretty nice.

Fender - 2013 Japan Limited Edition '52 Telecaster Demo at GAK - YouTube

It was built really nice, great action, felt good, but I'm not a fan of the 7.25" neck - oh well.

 

[AccustomedtoStandards]

While the higher end MIMs are getting into the U.S.A. price range (and have been for a while), I believe the weakening yen definitely plays a part in current U.S. affordability for MIJ models. The Japanese trade deficit is at an all-time high and they are boosting exports.

I bought a 1994 60s Stratocaster HRR new in 1994 and it was $699 then. The major reason for Japanese models fading from the U.S. market is that they were more expensive than the market would bear. In the late 90s MIJ models in the catalog ended up being limited to special editions like the paisleys and blue flower and models not being made in the U.S. at that time (Jazzmaster, Jaguar, and Mustang). After Ensenada opened, it was the occasional Aerodyne or other unusual models.

The 60th Anniversary Classic Player comes with a tweed hardcase with an embroidered 60th logo inside that accounts for most of the $100 difference between it and a regular Classic Player. The Road Worns are definitely overpriced (at least in my opinion). I would certainly choose either of the 50s models at Elderly in that price range.

 

[cristi tanasescu]

I currently have one mij strat, and I ve owned them all. Mia mim mik u name it. This 72 of mine, just blows ALL of them. And blows them out of the water with style.

 

[Gooner]

I haven't pulled the PG's to check to see what's in each, as I've heard that some early ones had US pups, but neither is horrible and look how many people buy new MIA's and change pups anyway.

I bought my 62 reissue new from Ishibashi about 10 years ago, the reissues as premium models with the TX designation after the reissue year come with US Texas Specials. The standard models come with pretty basic MIJ pups.

Here's a link to an importer in the UK with all the different models.....

Stratocaster