replica just as good as a real burst

shtdaprdtr

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haha yes :laugh2: no problem :thumb:
back to bursts and doppelgangers :slash:

hey shtdaprdtr what will be your reference for building? catto plan or maybe direct doppelganging from real deal :naughty:

combination of Catto and bartlett templates, with a stewmac neck plans and try to visit a guitar museum here by me to get some early LP details. Or maybe head over to guitar center here by me and check out their pearly gates reissue(which looks like shit by the way). Ill try to use CORAL draw as well to make a scale poster of the real guitar so that I can get the bridge and TP in the same ballpark, Ill have to adjust it in relation to the neck of course. Im just worried that the figuring might change when I carve the top...if thats the case..then it will become just another regular 59 replica.
 

shtdaprdtr

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Ill also use coral draw to get the relic spots in the exact same area and size...Ill try to break down and discolor the laquer edges with actual sweat or a light acid mixture, and do real weather checking, rolled binding, and build a smoke box to yellow the finish with nicotine from cigarettes..(heard somebody did that once...it might even help dry it more)
 

shtdaprdtr

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but first...I need to find my camera
and go back to work.
 

bfcg

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There is nothing mystical about the real thing.
Granted, there are some thing that you simply can not re-produce.
As far as tone goes, you cant reproduce old wood and an old finish.
People will argue that the old finish contributes to the tone, I won't argue with that, it is true for acoustic instruments so as minute as it might be on a solid body, it is probably still true. Thick polly finishes will adversely effect tone, so logically at thin cured finish should sound better.
Pots could be tweaked at the factory until they sound and operate just as the old ones did or do now. A switch is really just a switch as long as it is not crap. There are some very high quality electronics available without looking too hard.
There are plenty of guys that can wind a pickup to sound like one of the many different sounding PAF's.
Truss rod can be reproduced and installed just like the old ones.
Not all vintage bursts were the greatest sounding or playing guitars.
If you can find all of the suitable components, and carefully build a guitar, you might end up with a guitar that sounds and plays better than a vintage burst. It just might not look exactly like one and won't be worth as much.
 

shtdaprdtr

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There is nothing mystical about the real thing.
Granted, there are some thing that you simply can not re-produce.
As far as tone goes, you cant reproduce old wood and an old finish.
People will argue that the old finish contributes to the tone, I won't argue with that, it is true for acoustic instruments so as minute as it might be on a solid body, it is probably still true. Thick polly finishes will adversely effect tone, so logically at thin cured finish should sound better.
Pots could be tweaked at the factory until they sound and operate just as the old ones did or do now. A switch is really just a switch as long as it is not crap. There are some very high quality electronics available without looking too hard.
There are plenty of guys that can wind a pickup to sound like one of the many different sounding PAF's.
Truss rod can be reproduced and installed just like the old ones.
Not all vintage bursts were the greatest sounding or playing guitars.
If you can find all of the suitable components, and carefully build a guitar, you might end up with a guitar that sounds and plays better than a vintage burst. It just might not look exactly like one and won't be worth as much.
I agree..im already one step closer with an actual vintage PAF for my bridge...just need to find a cover for it
 

shtdaprdtr

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Finally took pics of the top...will post later tonight...have band rehearsal for an upcoming gig.
 

ExNihilo

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I once saw a neat youtube video where a panel of "experts" were comparing the sound (tone) of different violins, one of which was a Stradivarius. The Stradivarius lost. So, IMO you can make a replica as good or better, but it is still not the same (even if it sounds better.... it will never be as cool).

This is definitely an "opinion" thread.
 

SiriusAbbott

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Not all vintage bursts were the greatest sounding or playing guitars.
this is a fact,I have played MANY vintage Gibson LPs,some ...well,not so good,some were phenomenal,but some,lets just say they fell way short of the asking price in tone and/or looks:hmm:
 

bfcg

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The best sounding bursts are the ones that are played by people who practiced.
Really, most people have only heard vintage bursts when they were played by great musicians. Of course they sounded good. You grew up playing air guitar to the stuff, and maybe bang'in your heads on the wall:laugh2:
 

captcoolaid

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I don't know to me some of the magic that comes from a 59 is the era in which it was built. Will it be as good as a burst that is up to you. The instruments we play are only as good as the passion in which we play them, Or in this case build them and play them
 

SKATTERBRANE

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Also keep in mind those guitars were not 50 years old when they were being used by the guitar "legends". So obviously the age had nothing to do with it back then, so why does it now? I think people just want to believe in magic.

Old growth is not the same as aged wood.
 

shtdaprdtr

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pearly-gates-pic-850-100.jpg

PRLYWOOD.jpg

badpearly.jpg

here are the pics.
Pic #1 is the real pearly, you can see the bald spot and that sideways V figure (it looks like < ).
In pic 2 is my maple top for my pearly replica...I have that same sideways V figure...I just have to move it up a little (I didnt have a pic of pearly when I drew the lines). The only disappointment is that my bald spot will be lower to avoid those 2 knots that are circled in blue...that really sucks....otherwise the figure is pretty damn close...hard to tell by the pics...please excuse the camera angle but there is much more figuring going on towards the middle of that right piece.
Pic #3 is the Gibson custom shop which costs $17,000. In my opinion theyre off quite a bit with the figuring even though I know its impossible to match it...they could have gotten a little closer than that though, I was looking at 3 pieces when I got mine....I missed out on a great one though.
 

shtdaprdtr

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im really gonna need help nailing the color...have to figure out the right mix....the gibson version looks like it has too much cherry
 

shtdaprdtr

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anyway...I might use urea formaldehyde for the top...I heard Gibson used some form of formaldehyde for it...excuse me if its spelled wrong but I think it was phenal formaldehyde....not the hide glue everyone believes (because if it was...the body would seperate when doing a neck repair/replacement/reset). Any thoughts of the use of Urea instead? As far as hardware... not sure if Im going vintage route (might be too pricey and not worth it) or maybe the pigtail route. Oh by the way...the vintage PAF I have might be a 62 PAF...anyone know the differences between it and a 59 PAF?
 

Jason

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Old growth is not the same as aged wood.

Well, yeah, I know that. I live in Oregon, it's hard not to know that. :laugh2: It seemed clear to me that the guy was talking about the wood having aged 50 years since bursts were built.
 

shtdaprdtr

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the main reason a 59 Les Paul is valuable is because there are about 1300 made and many rock heroes had one (or many)..leaving a limited number left. Gibson was and always will be a manufacturer first...I highly doubt they were real picky about the age of their wood...after all, the goldtops had misaligned seams and multiple pieces as tops cause they didnt give a shit since it was painted solid...so do you think they really gave a shit for those last 3 years?
 

bfcg

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The secret is where they scientifically placed the seams:laugh2:
 

shtdaprdtr

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The secret is where they scientifically placed the seams:laugh2:

ah yes....and lets not forget...some gold flakes thrown in the paint which originally cam from the old mines in San Fran...aged, pure, and never used until the early goldtops...some even came from King Midas....unfortunately you can never replicate it because Gibson had a secret stash only to be used in the 50's......along with the magical plastic pickup rings...wow I can hear the difference in tone just talking about it. Wait hold on....my tenon is .05mm too short....oh fuck, there goes my tone.
 

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