Replacing Klusons with Grovers

Rotovibe

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Anybody do this to their historic and see an improvement? I like the way the Grovers look and it seems like so many famous Les Paul players switched out the original Klusons for the Grovers. Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Mike Bloomfield, etc. All of those famous Les Pauls had Grovers. Why?
 

BOBBO

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Anybody do this to their historic and see an improvement? I like the way the Grovers look and it seems like so many famous Les Paul players switched out the original Klusons for the Grovers. Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Mike Bloomfield, etc. All of those famous Les Pauls had Grovers. Why?

I would think that most of those guys changed the Klusons to the Grovers for tuning stability and the fact that the Klusons are a bit more fragile for stage use !!! Also the tuner buttons did have a tendency to deteriorate and crumble away !!!
 
S

SKATTERBRANE

I prefer them, but only use older USA versions and if you know what you are doing, you can leave part of the peghead holes unscathed, so you can reinstall your Kluson push-in bushings, if you want to return the Les Paul to original.
 

BOBBO

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A real 58 ... Grovered !!!

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Stowburst

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My 1st Les Paul had Grovers and since then I have put them on all my Les Pauls...the same set!?! I'm waiting for my new R9 to arrive and guess what.. as soon as it arrives I'm getting the drill out and putting the Grovers on it.

I think they are so much more stable, but if you wanna get geeky...it can make a light guitar sound a bit fatter or a balance out a body heavy LP..:hmm:
 

LPCollector

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I don't mean to hijack....but I've been thinking of replacing my R7 Juniors tuners with Grovers...anyone know what I'm in for?
 

MorePaul

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I've been having problems with too much resonance in the neck of my R7. Could switching to Grovers make the neck less resonant?
 
S

SKATTERBRANE

My 1st Les Paul had Grovers and since then I have put them on all my Les Pauls...the same set!?! I'm waiting for my new R9 to arrive and guess what.. as soon as it arrives I'm getting the drill out and putting the Grovers on it.

I think they are so much more stable, but if you wanna get geeky...it can make a light guitar sound a bit fatter or a balance out a body heavy LP..:hmm:

Stow, if you drill from the back ONLY the depth of the Grover sleeve, you will leave the front of the headstock untouched, and you will be able to reinstall Kluson push in bushings later if you want, without going through the trouble of buying oversized bushings. I have done this dozens of times. Currently on my 95 R9 and my 96 R7.
 
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SKATTERBRANE

I don't mean to hijack....but I've been thinking of replacing my R7 Juniors tuners with Grovers...anyone know what I'm in for?

Unlike the individual Klusons, the strip Klusons will make it nessesary to drill a few mounting screw holes as well. See my suggestion to Stow above, for drilling the pegholes.
 

Stowburst

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Stow, if you drill from the back ONLY the depth of the Grover sleeve, you will leave the front of the headstock untouched, and you will be able to reinstall Kluson push in bushings later if you want

Yes its cool thats how I do it anyway, :thumb: I have switched back before just for the odd gig or too!
 

Boleskinehouse

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I do it to all of mine, eventually. I don't like the look, or the feel, of Klusons...

Don't use a drill!! Take your time, and use a reamer!
 

pit_s_xroad

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Hi there...

I do it always the other way around... I like the light-weight vintage Kluson stuff better than those heavy Grovers... :cool:

I don't think it's an improvement... rather something different simply...

PIT... :)
 

970harris

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I prefer them, but only use older USA versions and if you know what you are doing, you can leave part of the peghead holes unscathed, so you can reinstall your Kluson push-in bushings, if you want to return the Les Paul to original.

Skatterbrane, is your recommendation on the older USA versions related to what I have heard has been a decline in quality (presumably on foreign made) over the years? Also, is there any issue with current production models of the regular rotomatics as far as drilling, from the back of the headstock, just as deep as the Grover sleeve? I know I'll have to drill some additional mounting holes, but I have a VOS LP Special Singlecut and, although those (strip mounted) button machines are OK, I'd still like something that tunes to pitch more smoothly. It'd just be nice to be able to put the buttons back on later. Thanks.

(BTW, I did try the locking Grovers about a year ago in an inexpensive Epi. They made no material difference in tuning stability and they were (IMHO) a huge pain in the ass as far as threading the string through the tuning peg and then getting the string to disengage (i.e., unlock) from the peg when changing strings.)

Also, headed over to ebay to check, but do "vintage" grovers show up for sale on the 'net and is there anything in particular you have to watch out for there? Thanks again.
 

970harris

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I don't mean to hijack....but I've been thinking of replacing my R7 Juniors tuners with Grovers...anyone know what I'm in for?

I don't know how much relevance this has to current Historic Juniors, but years ago I did replace the buttons on two Juniors (one a cherry red double cut circa 58 - 60, the other a singlecut that had had the serial no sanded off) with Grovers. They tuned up way better and --- personal opinion here --- I liked the way looked, too.

If, as Skatterbranes suggests, there is a way to avoid drilling out the entire peg hole, and even with those strip button tuners realizing that I am going to end up drilling small holes in the back of the headstock to accomodate the individual Grover machines, I am thinking about taking the plunge with my VOS LP Special Singlecut.
 
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SKATTERBRANE

Yes the sleeve depth technique would apply to new Asian cheapo Grovers too.

The pre mid 80s Grovers are what I recommend (even though they are only 12:1) but the tolerances are better and they are made of better alloys. All USA Grovers will say USA on them somewhere.
grovers-1.jpg

grovers.jpg

goldGrovers.jpg


And some Asian ones:
asianGrovers.jpg
 

Sawgwa

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Tone Pros bought Kluson and made some changes that look interesting. 15:1 and options for peg hole size.

Robert
 

TnT~55

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I prefer the look of grovers, and the feel (prefer the ones on my brothers Epi than on my guitar) but I rather spend my money on other things at the moment...I really should pick up a job.
 

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