refretting an ES-347 - stick with brass nut?

[VertigoCycles]

I bought an ES-347 a few years ago...it was a debacle and UPS damaged it. Ultimately I was able to keep it and received about 80% of my money back. It makes for a relatively inexpensive learning platform.

I really never jived with the tarback pickups and while I'm waiting for my filtertrons to arrive (don't balk too much, I have a '79 355 with Tim Shaw pups that I'll never change) I thought I'd tackle my first refret.

The original frets were only about 0.030" tall and I'm replacing them with Jescar EVO which is 5 thou wider and 0.056" tall. It'll need a new nut. I could shim the old brass nut, machine a new brass one or just go with bone. I might even have a Tusq blank or several around.

Does anyone want to weigh in? Do you think brass makes a noticeable tonal difference?

 

[ARandall]

I'd go a new bone one......mainly as it will be easier to work on for the life of the new fretwire as that gradually wears.
The nut is 'less important' than bridge saddle material. I still logically feel like it has a small impact even fretted, as that is the main fulcrum at the headstock end.
I mean if people think tuners are a tonal impact regardless of whether you are hitting an open or fretted note, then surely nut material is of similar importance as that is another (albeit lesser) interaction between string and neck shaft.

 

[LtDave32]

Brass nut is taken out of play (for the most part) the moment you finger a fret.

Then you've got a brassy tone mixed in with the rest.

Brass bridge is another matter. -always effects the strings evenly.

But I'd say lose the brass nut and go for the bone. Or Tusq. Best sound comes out of bone. Most consistent.

Avoid Corian, it tends to wear quickly. Nylon 6/6 is great, but very hard to work with. And nuts need working when you install them.

Back to brass, I"ve talked to a lot of players, replaced a lot of brass nuts they were not happy with. They seem to lose their charm after you play on them a while.

In fact, I cannot recall one single player who really digs his brass nut.



Hey, @BrianH .. We were talking about fret pullers.

Proper fret pullers. Go with these, save $30 or so by not buying the overpriced Stew Mac ones.

Fret Puller Pliers for guitar and bass - the best available

Fret Puller for lifting and removing fretwire from the guitar fingerboard while minimizing wood chip-out. 3 peaks brand.

www.philadelphialuthiertools.com

Same exact puller. They work superbly.

 

[BrianH]

Thank you, Dave! I am gonna buy those exact ones!

 

[LtDave32]

Thank you, Dave! I am gonna buy those exact ones!

I've also got a line on the very best flush-cut fret nippers / installers you will ever find.

Cuts through stainless steel like butter. Lifetime tool:

SUMMIT Fret Cutter With Hammer

Summit fret cutter with hammer, length 9 inches, weight 1 pound, hardness Hrc 40-44/58+-2 The Summit Fret Cutter With Hammer helps make precise cutting and installation of frets easy. The hardened jaws ensure a smooth, clean cut every time, even for the toughest stainless steel frets! The...

www.jescarguitar.com

There are other Summit cutters without the hammer on that site.

What better place to shop for fretting tools than Jescar frets themseles?

 

[VertigoCycles]

Thanks all. I've got bone, so I'll go with bone (or Tusq if I come across the blank that I know I have)

I'm going to get some of those fret pullers too. I have some modified Knipex end nippers that I ground into a useful profile after chipping them cutting stainless. They work, but they're a bit clunky.

 

[LtDave32]

I'm going to get some of those fret pullers too. I have some modified Knipex end nippers that I ground into a useful profile after chipping them cutting stainless. They work, but they're a bit clunky.

V, The pullers I listed work great. They are nothing like the cheap little ones. The jaws are super-thin, and designed to get under the fret easily. More pressure on the handles lifts that section of fret straight up. You squeeze and move, squeeze and move. Best I have ever used.

 

[Joe Desperado]

I’ll second Dave’s recommendation. I use those exact ones from Philly. They also reduce chips by 80% or more. Really great. I don’t even use the chip guards anymore.

 

[Joe Desperado]

PS. EVO wire is hard and hard to install too. Very much like stainless. I don’t much care for the sound or feel of them myself. Ymmv

 

[LtDave32]

That Jescar site has a lot of very cool stuff, even buffing wheels and polishing compounds.

-And some answers to some questions I had. They have a "corrective" compound that removes 1500 scratches (I'm doing 800-1000-1500 now). And the have black compounds for dark guitars.

Lots of final-finishing products with wood guitars in mind, instead of focusing on cars and metal.

But they have some of that too.

A lot of great, high-quality tools and materials, specific to luthiers.

Good site to bookmark.

 

[LPTDMSV]

I could shim the old brass nut, machine a new brass one or just go with bone. I might even have a Tusq blank or several around.

Does anyone want to weigh in? Do you think brass makes a noticeable tonal difference?

I’ve had a couple of guitars with brass nuts and I am not a fan. Even if you like the effect it has on open chords, the problem is that vibration of the wound strings creates little witness marks in the groove which sooner or later snag the winding and cause ‘ping’ tuning problems.

Heavy brass nuts, bridges, tailpieces, headstock weights - one of those ‘70s fads for “MOAR SUSTAIN!”

 

[LPTDMSV]

If it still has the Schaller fine tuning tailpiece I would bin that too - whatever your tuning problem is, that’s not the answer!

Tarbacks are an acquired taste, that I never acquired

 

[LtDave32]

Heavy brass nuts, bridges, tailpieces, headstock weights - one of those ‘70s fads for “MOAR SUSTAIN!”

Exactly.

"Travis Bean"... Aluminum necks, etc.

 

[VertigoCycles]

If it still has the Schaller fine tuning tailpiece I would bin that too - whatever your tuning problem is, that’s not the answer!

Tarbacks are an acquired taste, that I never acquired

That tailpiece won't be making it back on the guitar. I was going to put a Bigsby on, but this is one of the 347's with the weird distance between bridge and tailpiece and I can't quite do the Bigsby the way I'd prefer. Going with a standard tailpiece for now.

I've done a few scratch builds that have turned out great but this is my first refret and I'm learning by making a bunch of mistakes. Pulling the frets SEEMED to go smoothly enough but as I was beveling the slots today, a handful of chips are popping off. I've wicked a tiny drop of CA into them but don't have any teflon material on hand and am realizing that even the smallest drop of CA is going to make it a pain to clean up the slots with the binding on. All progress is paused until I can get some teflon on hand to dam the slots

 

[BrianH]

I use a razor blade or something like that to occupy the slot while I glue chips back in and/or fill chips with rosewood dust. Clean slot with saw of your choice. It’s worked fine for me.

 

[LtDave32]

Use water thin CA. It will wick down the fret tang.

You only need to score the fret slot, just one pull with a needle file will do.

After you have glued down the loose chips, level the surface with some 220 and a radius block.

Blow out the slots with strong air before installing frets.

 

[VertigoCycles]

I appreciate all the input I got here. I did buy those Hosco pullers when I placed an order with Philadelphia Luthier Supply, but the package was held up for over a week so I just finished pulling with my modified Knipex cutters that has previously cracked while trying to nip the ends of stainless frets.

broken and repurposed Knipex nippers by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I had a couple of bone nuts but went with something else that I bought in the same order. Some kind of tusk, it's black, and not bone so why not? I found that it doesn't smell nearly as terrible as bone but my dog was still VERY interested in it.

The photo showed me some file marks that I couldn't see even with my readers on. A minor bummer that I can live with.

far from perfect by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I enjoy the look of the semi-hemi ends and as I don't have the stones (or skill) to pull off a refret with the nibs intact, I thought I'd give it a shot and it went pretty well.

Just a note - with only two scratch builds (with stainless frets) and this one refret with EVO Gold, I don't know what I don't know...having never used nickel-silver. I have to say that I didn't find it difficult at all to work with these frets. Compared to stainless, they're considerably easier to file and sand but I didn't think stainless was a big problem either, aside from breaking my cutters. It's probably just a matter of perspective. I've been working with titanium for the past 18 years, manually machining it and welding on a near daily basis. So far the only material that I like less than machining harder alloys of titanium, are some copper alloys that just don't want to make chips.

EVO Gold with Hemi ends by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

It was good, type-2, fun. There's about 0.010" relief, the low E is 0.050" at the 12th fret and the high E is a tad over 0.030" which is the lowest action of my guitars. No buzzing, no fretting out and it plays incredibly well.

I don't know about these filtertrons yet though. They're not as clear as I expected them to be and even have a really hard time pushing my Demeter to break up with the gain nearly maxed out on Ch2. How do you make a pickup that's both super low gain AND muddy?

 

[Dilver]

Not all filtertrons are the same. If you want a set that has some juice with clarity, the TV Jones Classic/Classic Plus set is hard to beat.