Reference to Traditional vs. Standard vs. Classic?

[larryguitar]

Is there a short, basic reference to the different LP models of the past few years? It seems pretty subtle and very opaque to someone just looking into them.

Not looking for going too far down the rabbit hole, but just a basic comparison chart or something?

Thanks,

Larry

 

[efstop]

Cliffs Notes LOL
Before it was discontinued, the Traditional was what is now the Standard '50s, no weight relief, BB 1& 2 and cheaper than the Standard.
The Classic is about to be discontinued, I believe. Uncovered BB '61s, 9 hole relief and push-pull controls with coil splits/taps and phase/bypass.

 

[OldBenKenobi]

Coming out of the Norlin years, the Standard was pretty consistent between 1986 and 2007. It had the swiss cheese weight relief and a Nashville bridge. In 2002 it switched from 498/490 pickups to Burstbuckers and was available with both a 50s and 60s neck.

The Classic existed parallel to the Standard for most of that time, and was basically a middle ground between a Standard and a vintage reissue. The differences were a slim taper neck, an ABR bridge, and vintage-style tuners. There were numerous aesthetic touches as well depending on the year, such as uncovered pickups, a "1960" graphic on the pickguard, thin binding, sharp inlay corners and "aged" (snot green) inlays. It adopted a Nashville bridge around 2004.

In 2008 Gibson redesigned the Standard. It now had a fully chambered body, an asymmetrical neck profile and locking jack and tuners.

At this time a new model was launched, carrying on the specifications of the previous version of the Standard. This was called the Traditional.

In 2012 the Standard was updated with push-pull pots. In 2013 the Traditional stopped being weight relieved and remained somewhat consistent between 2013-2015.

This is where it gets really confusing, because Gibson adopted a "model year" business model, so every year's lineup was considered separate models from the last. The Classic became very schizophrenic in particular. Robot tuners, adjustable metal nuts, different weight relief methods, both Traditional and High Power models for each model, none of it made any fucking sense. And there were a zillion side models: Pro, Plus, Premium variants popping in and out of everything. Sometimes a AAAAA top was standard. Othertimes it was a AA top with a AAA Premium model. There were a ton of finishes, ranging from traditional burst variants to vibrant colors. At one point the Standard came in 10 finishes.

In 2019 the lineup was simplified significantly. The Standard, Traditional and Classic went through group therapy and sorted themselves out. The new 50s and 60s Standards are basically the latter-day Traditionals with a few touches changed. The Classic is essentially a 90s Standard/00s Traditional with the 10s Classic's PCB. And the crazy, radical, maligned, revamped Standard that sparked all of this confusion has found its true identity as the Les Paul Modern.

Basically, the original idea was Classic, Traditional and Standard were three models on a scale from vintage to modern and Gibson blew that up spectacularly.

 

[LCW]

Classics used to have the snot green inlays. And ‘1960’ on the pickguard. Kinda silly.

 

[01GT Eibach]

Yeah, the Traditional is basically an "old school" more vintagey Les Paul that was offered in a time when the Standard had been getting a lot of more modern features. The Standard went back towards its vintage roots in recent years resulting in Traditionals not being offered for quite a while now. The Classic is intended to be a full-feature Les Paul but quite a bit cheaper than a Standard having (in recent years anyway) a plain top, 9-hole weight relief, some modern wiring, and always a 60s-slim neck. When the recent change of management occurred, the current "Collection" offerings (Original, Modern, and Artist) were released in 2019.5 which have been mostly stable ever since albeit with noticeably increasing prices and increased offerings and colors. The Les Paul Standard 50s & 60s currently come in three strata/flavors now (Figured, Plain Top, and Faded). Figured is the 'top of the line' one. With the new Plain Tops, it is thought that the Classic is going away (I only recently became aware of that). Everything I mentioned is great just depending on what you like or don't. There are also the artist Standards that include Slash, Adam Jones, and Greeny, each with their own specific set of premium features. This all will make more sense if you view the guitars on Gibson.com "by Collection" in the pull-down menu.

 

[OldBenKenobi]

The Les Paul Standard 50s & 60s currently come in three strata/flavors now (Figured, Plain Top, and Faded). Figured is the 'top of the line' one. With the new Plain Tops, it is thought that the Classic is going away (I only recently became aware of that).

Are you sure that's how they're structuring it now?

The 50s/60s Plain/Figured Top collections seem like more of a showcase for special colors. The regular Standard 50s and 60s are still listed as their own thing (including the Goldtop).

If they were splitting the Standard into Plain and Figured models, I think that would be cool but I'd hope to see the burst finishes on the Plain Tops as well. Maybe something like this:

	50s Plain	60s Plain	50s Figured	60s Figured
Finish #1	Goldtop	Goldtop w/Darkback	Heritage Cherry Burst	Iced Tea
Finish #2	Ebony	Transparent Cherry	Tobacco Burst	Bourbon Burst
Finish #3	Lemon Burst	Unburst	Honey Burst	Vintage Cherry Burst

So the Figured models would get a medium burst, a darker burst and a faded burst, while the Plain models would get a Goldtop, a solid color and a heavily faded burst. 12 finishes total.

 

[1allspub]

Coming out of the Norlin years, the Standard was pretty consistent between 1986 and 2007. It had the swiss cheese weight relief and a Nashville bridge. In 2002 it switched from 498/490 pickups to Burstbuckers and was available with both a 50s and 60s neck.

The Classic existed parallel to the Standard for most of that time, and was basically a middle ground between a Standard and a vintage reissue. The differences were a slim taper neck, an ABR bridge, and vintage-style tuners. There were numerous aesthetic touches as well depending on the year, such as uncovered pickups, a "1960" graphic on the pickguard, thin binding, sharp inlay corners and "aged" (snot green) inlays. It adopted a Nashville bridge around 2004.

In 2008 Gibson redesigned the Standard. It now had a fully chambered body, an asymmetrical neck profile and locking jack and tuners.

At this time a new model was launched, carrying on the specifications of the previous version of the Standard. This was called the Traditional.

In 2012 the Standard was updated with push-pull pots. In 2013 the Traditional stopped being weight relieved and remained somewhat consistent between 2013-2015.

This is where it gets really confusing, because Gibson adopted a "model year" business model, so every year's lineup was considered separate models from the last. The Classic became very schizophrenic in particular. Robot tuners, adjustable metal nuts, different weight relief methods, both Traditional and High Power models for each model, none of it made any fucking sense. And there were a zillion side models: Pro, Plus, Premium variants popping in and out of everything. Sometimes a AAAAA top was standard. Othertimes it was a AA top with a AAA Premium model. There were a ton of finishes, ranging from traditional burst variants to vibrant colors. At one point the Standard came in 10 finishes.

In 2019 the lineup was simplified significantly. The Standard, Traditional and Classic went through group therapy and sorted themselves out. The new 50s and 60s Standards are basically the latter-day Traditionals with a few touches changed. The Classic is essentially a 90s Standard/00s Traditional with the 10s Classic's PCB. And the crazy, radical, maligned, revamped Standard that sparked all of this confusion has found its true identity as the Les Paul Modern.

Basically, the original idea was Classic, Traditional and Standard were three models on a scale from vintage to modern and Gibson blew that up spectacularly.

Excellent write up!

As I recall, “Modern Weight Relief” was used on the previous generation Standards. Were the early ones (2008) actually chambered? and if so when did they switch to just MWR?

 

[OldBenKenobi]

Excellent write up!

As I recall, “Modern Weight Relief” was used on the previous generation Standards. Were the early ones (2008) actually chambered? and if so when did they switch to just MWR?

They were chambered from 2008 to 2012, when the switch was made to Modern Weight Relief.

 

[1allspub]

They were chambered from 2008 to 2012, when the switch was made to Modern Weight Relief.

Thanks! Did not know that. Learn something new every day.

 

[crazytrain513]

1) Thin neck, weight relieved?
Buy a Classic (they’re getting discontinued now and are very reasonably priced right now)

2) Thin neck, solid?
Buy Standard 60’s

3) Thick neck, cheaper?
Buy a used Traditional (2013 onward were solid-body, I believe weight-relieved prior). Traditionals were discontinued in 2019.

4) Thick neck, new?
Buy Standard 50s

There are of course other differences (pickups, electronics, quirky years, etc.) as many have listed above but the above has been mostly accurate for some time now

 

[1allspub]

Trads were 9-hole weight relieved from 2008 - 2012.

From 2013 - 2015 Trads were non-weight relieved.

In 2016, Trads mostly went back to most 9-hole weight relief. I say mostly because there was a limited run of some plaintops which were non-weight relieved and even a Sprint Run (SR) which may or may not have been non-weight relieves (I can’t recall anymore).

From 2017 - mid-2019 (until the Trad model was disco’d) it went back to being non-weight relieved.

Trads were/are awesome models, but they were/are a very confusing model to keep up with… Henry J was kinda manic and it reflected in the constant model fluxes.

And this is only the regular Trads… the Trad Pros are a whole nuther story.

 

[Leee]

Henry J was kinda manic and it reflected in the constant model fluxes.

Just remember THIS @larryguitar

Henry Jusciewicz did a number on Gibson, starting in 2008 and lasting until the investors cut his throat and threw him off the fantail in 2018.

You’d need a score card from the information posted above to even try to understand the madness.

For me, it was a little easier since I have a preference for slim necks.
I looked for something that said “Classic” or “60s” or “slim taper” and ignored everything else.