Randy Rhoads’ LP Custom tailpiece height

[crazytrain513]

I came across this photo from Steven Rosen and Andrew Klein’s book “Randy Rhoads” which gives a detailed look at Randy’s Les Paul and I noticed that his tailpiece is not only not bolted down to the body but what I would consider actually a bit high.

Many say to get the best tone and sustain you need to bolt the tailpiece down to the body and personally, I think Randy had plenty of both!

I also saw in the latest Premier Guitar Rig Rundown with Slash’s guitar tech that he also has Slash’s tailpieces raised about 3/4 inches on each side.

Just found it interesting and thought I’d share.

 

[bluesoul]

Many say to get the best tone and sustain you need to bolt the tailpiece down to the body

I think that is more myth than truth. What ever difference there is I think is subtle. With some Les Pauls the TP needs to come up a bit to get the strings to clear the bridge edge. It is more personal preference in most cases....raising the TP a little can make the string tension feel slinkier.
The setup in the pic is not unusual or high....pretty common I would say.

 

[CB91710]

The guitar needs what the guitar needs.
In this case, it needs to be raised to keep the strings off of the back of the bridge, and to reduce downward pressure on the bridge, which *will* lead to it collapsing.

So when it needs to be raised, how best to do it?
Raise the tailpiece.
If it needs to be raised a LOT, so the point that there is concern about the tension angle on the bushings working them out of the wood, then clamp if down and top-wrap.

Some guitars need it, some do not.

 

[Freddy G]

The guitar needs what the guitar needs.
In this case, it needs to be raised to keep the strings off of the back of the bridge, and to reduce downward pressure on the bridge, which *will* lead to it collapsing.

So when it needs to be raised, how best to do it?
Raise the tailpiece.
If it needs to be raised a LOT, so the point that there is concern about the tension angle on the bushings working them out of the wood, then clamp if down and top-wrap.

Some guitars need it, some do not.

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Wouldn't it be nice if Les Pauls didn't have such a ridiculously wide tolerance for neck set/pitch?

Just sayin'


I was consulting a major guitar manufacturer 2 days ago (they will be producing a guitar which I know all the specs to) and I told the designers "the neck pitch is 9/16" at the bridge scale length mark when you put a straight edge across the fret tops down the centerline of the neck."

And they huffed and puffed....."with our machining processes it's not that simple to be that precise"

And I'm thinking to myself really? what's the problem? just how sloppy are your tolerances?

 

[crazytrain513]

All great points.

I know a lot of the tailpiece/sustain stuff is myth, but I know a lot of people also snuff at a guitar who’s tailpiece can’t clear the bridge when bolted down, especially when it’s the thinner ABR-1.

I’ve seen people state that guitars inferior or with lower tolerance in their construction can’t clear the bridge so just thought it was funny that a guy with such monstrous guitar sound (whether you’re a fan of his tone or not) seemed to do just fine without his tailpiece bolted. And if he couldn’t clear the bridge, even funnier.

 

[CB91710]

Wouldn't it be nice if Les Pauls didn't have such a ridiculously wide tolerance for neck set/pitch?

Just sayin'


I was consulting a major guitar manufacturer 2 days ago (they will be producing a guitar which I know all the specs to) and I told the designers "the neck pitch is 9/16" at the bridge scale length mark when you put a straight edge across the fret tops down the centerline of the neck."

And they huffed and puffed....."with our machining processes it's not that simple to be that precise"

And I'm thinking to myself really? what's the problem? just how sloppy are your tolerances?

Well... in fairness, that's a 2020 SG, 2019 Flying V, and 2020 Epiphone 3-pickup Bonamassa LPC

I don't have a good bridge shot of my Gibson Les Paul, but it does not need to be raised.

 

[ARandall]

Its funny really......there are a lot of similarities to the premise of 'tailpiece must be low for best tone' and 'here's a high tailpiece so therefore it must be a bs argument'.

Both are a clickbait type statement - I mean who knows, Randy's tone might have been infinitely better with the T/p on the deck. Just mentioning an isolated happening without context is a poor argument whichever side of the coin you are trying to land on.

 

[CB91710]

Its funny really......there are a lot of similarities to the premise of 'tailpiece must be low for best tone' and 'here's a high tailpiece so therefore it must be a bs argument'.

Both are a clickbait type statement - I mean who knows, Randy's tone might have been infinitely better with the T/p on the deck. Just mentioning an isolated happening without context is a poor argument whichever side of the coin you are trying to land on.

Or it is a function of the break angle at the saddles, meaning that there would be no difference between slammed where the strings are resting on the back of the bridge, or raised just enough to slip a hair under them.
Or is it a function of how solidly the tailpiece is mounted, meaning that there would be no difference between being slammed, or extended 1/2" up, but with a spacer, allowing the screw to be fully tightened.

The mind boggles

 

[efstop]

Or it is a function of the break angle at the saddles, meaning that there would be no difference between slammed where the strings are resting on the back of the bridge, or raised just enough to slip a hair under them.
Or is it a function of how solidly the tailpiece is mounted, meaning that there would be no difference between being slammed, or extended 1/2" up, but with a spacer, allowing the screw to be fully tightened.

The mind boggles

The only mind boggled is the one trying to determine the importance of it all

 

[ARandall]

Or it is a function of the break angle at the saddles, meaning that there would be no difference between slammed where the strings are resting on the back of the bridge, or raised just enough to slip a hair under them.
Or is it a function of how solidly the tailpiece is mounted, meaning that there would be no difference between being slammed, or extended 1/2" up, but with a spacer, allowing the screw to be fully tightened.

The mind boggles

Yep, too many variables and a topic/result that is very much unique to each guitar. But of course the clickbait crowd don't want to get into that much detail or deal with so much uncertainty. You've got to have that confrontational easy to digest headline!!

 

[crazytrain513]

Its funny really......there are a lot of similarities to the premise of 'tailpiece must be low for best tone' and 'here's a high tailpiece so therefore it must be a bs argument'.

Both are a clickbait type statement - I mean who knows, Randy's tone might have been infinitely better with the T/p on the deck. Just mentioning an isolated happening without context is a poor argument whichever side of the coin you are trying to land on.

There’s no clickbait or argument here. It’s simply the sharing of a close-up photo not seen by most that I couldn’t find anywhere on the internet that I thought may be of interest to others, along with a personal observation based upon what I commonly hear from others.

 

[Juan Wayne]

People say the weirdest shit on the internets.

 

[Rocco Crocco]

I messed around with tailpiece height on an ES Les Paul and the guitar sounded great no matter where the TP was set.

 

[crazytrain513]

I've actually been messing around with the one on my Les Paul Custom this week.

I've always had it bolted to the body but in my experimentation I noticed at a certain height, the harmonics on the upper strings come out a bit more and the attack gets a little softer, while the string tension eases up a bit. Down flat to the body again and some of the notes don't bloom the same but the notes have a bit more cut and spank. Both good sounds, but I was surprised that there was as big of a difference as there was.

 

[8len8]

It really depends on your ears and rig. All these tone quests don’t work for everyone, and aren’t needed by everyone. Do what makes sense to you, what fixes a problem you have, or what makes things sound better to you.

 

[crazytrain513]

Just another thing on the long list of issues with that guitar leading to Randy disliking it.

How quickly it yellowed was top on that list. Who can find me that interview? It’s as if the internet buried it to prop up love for the white yellow Les Paul.


Things that fanboys love about the guitar are things that made him look to get custom guitar built that met his desires.

Would love to see that interview as well. I’ve actually heard he loved that Les Paul - was proud of the scratches and discoloration because they were “his scratches” and a result of his hard work.

His first and third custom Jacksons were both also white and the necks were requested to be on the fatter side and with ebony fretboards like his Les Paul so that’s interesting if he didn’t actually like his Les Paul…