questions about the 59 burst LP serial number

[idnotbe]

after goggling for a few days, i'd like to ask the "better" and "expert" members about the 59 burst LP serial number.
can u teach and advice the CSI approach?


1. according to the internet information, around 650 LPs were produced and shipped in 1959.
and the logged serial numbers starts from 9 0133 and continues till 9 2498 or 9 3182.

it means it is not just a SERIAL.
for example, if it is serial, the total production should be around 2498 - 1333 = 1165.

what is the pattern behind the numbers?
if i choose 9 1959 which is not logged yet, can it be the correct serial number??


2. i noticed the numbers have groups - seem like the production batch runs.
for ex, from 9 1080 to 9 1112 (1112 - 1080 = 32) , there are 17 logged serial numbers (17 / 32 = 0.53 = dense) .
but from 1251 to 1838 (1838 - 1251 = 587) , there are only 10 logged serial numbers (10 / 587 = 0.02 = sparse) .

what does this grouping mean?

if there are 2 serial numbers which are close to each other, can i infer that the 2 LPs have similar coloration / top pattern?
for ex, 9 1080 and 9 1081 have the similar coloration / top pattern?


3. today is 2015-Apr-19, and there is no Gibson 2015 CC LP in the market yet.

in 1959, when is the first (approximate) production date? and when is the (approximate) last?

did Gibson produced / distributed the 59 burst LPs from Jan. to Dec. continuously?
or from Apr. 1959 to Mar. 1960?
or from Dec. 1958 to Jul. 1959?



if they are sensitive information, PMs are also appreciated.

thanks~!!

 

[rockstar232007]

The original serial numbers didn't follow a specific format, like they do today, because production was very low (Gibson only produce about 600 guitars per-year, back then). They were simply used for ledger purposes.

In other words; the only real tell as to when a particular guitar was made is the first number - 9 = 1959.

As for using the pots to date guitars, that's only a rough guess, because Gibson was known for using whatever they had on-hand (old vs. new), and the parts/electronics used in different guitars could be from different years (i.e it's possible for a LP made in 1960 to have '58-'59 pots).

The best way to find out the explicit details about vintage LPs would be to do as much in-depth research as you can. There are numerous books/articles that talk about the changes in great detail, and a lot of people (some on this very site) who are very knowledgeable of even the smallest details.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

 

[martin H]

The original serial numbers didn't follow a specific format, like they do today, because production was very low (Gibson only produce about 600 guitars per-year, back then). They were simply used for ledger purposes.

In other words; the only real tell as to when a particular guitar was made is the first number - 9 = 1959.

As for using the pots to date guitars, that's only a rough guess, because Gibson was known for using whatever they had on-hand (old vs. new), and the parts/electronics used in different guitars could be from different years (i.e it's possible for a LP made in 1960 to have '58-'59 pots).



Good luck, and happy hunting!

I understand that both Gibson and Fender used to suffer from the "parts bin" problem when it comes to using components to date instruments. Essentially an assembler had a bin full of parts that were removed from the bin and put on an instrument. When the bin got low, a stocker filled it back up.

The parts in the bottom of the bin therefore often sat there for quite a long time, being covered with newer parts each time the bin got low. Fender's stamped serial number neck plates were done this way, and sometime a plate that was stamped as much as two years ago would finally make its way onto an instrument when the stocker was late in refilling the bin.

 

[HenryHill]

if i choose 9 1959 which is not logged yet, can it be the correct serial number??

 

[chasenblues]

I bet i know what you're thinking..

 

[FUS44]

I bet i know what you're thinking..

Yeah, how many weeks 'til "the discovery" and who will bring it to light and of course, where?

 

[idnotbe]

Yeah, how many weeks 'til "the discovery" and who will bring it to light and of course, where?

so, are there critical / important information which the ppl who know it do not want to reveal to the public / internet?

 

[KTM]

idnotbe, if I recall correctly, the other guitar models that Gibson was building in the 1950's used the same serial numbering system. So the "gaps" you see in the burst S/Ns listed could exist on, for example, a Les Paul Junior or a Custom.

 

[FUS44]

so, are there critical / important information which the ppl who know it do not want to reveal to the public / internet?

Serial number fishing........:hmm

 

[idnotbe]

idnotbe, if I recall correctly, the other guitar models that Gibson was building in the 1950's used the same serial numbering system. So the "gaps" you see in the burst S/Ns listed could exist on, for example, a Les Paul Junior or a Custom.

thanks for the input.


i thought about your comment.


9-XXXX system is applied to the solid body electric guitars.
according to Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson electric solidbody shipping production vintage guitar totals, the shipping totals of gibson solid body guitars in 1959 are like this.

Explr : 3
FlyV : 17
LpJr : 4364
LpJrTv : 543
LpSp : 1821
LpStd : 643
LpCus : 246
-------------
Total : 7637

and here are the serial # examples i found.

Explr : 9-1715
FlyV : 9-1701, 9-1704, 9-0973
LpJr : 9-9073, 910715, 927358, 933089, 936072, 936323
LpJrTv : 932952, 936072
LpSp : 910326, 930908
LpCus : 9-0165, 9-1797, 9-1802

and the logged burst serial #s are in...

LpStd : 9-0133 ~ 9-25XX


the implication from the above informations are...

1. some models such as LpJr, LpJrTv and LpSp (cheaper models? ) do not share the serial # range with LpStd.
but Explr, FlyV and LpCus shares the range with LpStd.


2. suppose all the serial #s for Explr, FlyV, LpCus and LpStd are in 9-0001 ~ 9-2500.
then, 9-0001 ~ 9-2500 can contain 2500 serial #s.
but the total number of Explr, FlyV, LpCus and LpStd in 1959 was 909.

so, there are still empty rooms between the serials.


3. when we consider the series of the logged serial #s such as...

9-1688 (LpStd), 9-1701 (FlyV), 9-1703 (LpStd), 9-1704 (FlyV), 9-1715 (Explr), 9-1785 (LpStd), 9-1797 (LpCus), 9-1802 (LpCus)....

the serial # is not strictly / directly connected to the production batch which is around 40.



uhmmm... still mysterious to me.

 

[FUS44]

Just put a number on it and roll the dice. The witch hunt during the unveiling will tell us if you have been paying enough attention/have one in hand to pass it off or not.
My guess is 'no dice'............