Pot value in a 2021 Custom Shop Les Paul?

[Deadletteroffice]

I understand I'd have to unsolder to measure the pots, so deos anyone know offhand what they are using?

I've tried everything adjusting the neck PU in the recent R7 I bought and the neck PU simply sounds like it's both under a pillow and louder than my bridge PU. I need more treble out of it or I'm going to rip the thing out and kick it into the pond behind my house. Overall I have to say I'm very disappointed with the Custom Buckers in general. The bridge PU is OK, but not fantastic. I swear sometimes the guitar sounds better unplugged.

 

[AJK1]

Are they unpotted ones ?

 

[Big Monk]

I understand I'd have to unsolder to measure the pots, so deos anyone know offhand what they are using?

I've tried everything adjusting the neck PU in the recent R7 I bought and the neck PU simply sounds like it's both under a pillow and louder than my bridge PU. I need more treble out of it or I'm going to rip the thing out and kick it into the pond behind my house. Overall I have to say I'm very disappointed with the Custom Buckers in general. The bridge PU is OK, but not fantastic. I swear sometimes the guitar sounds better unplugged.

What brand and printed value are on the pots? Is there a series name listed?

 

[jvin248]

.

Get a multi-meter, set it to a range higher than you want to measure, put the probes across the outer two lugs of the pots.
You'll get the actual readings for each pot. No unsoldering required.

While you're in there you should dime the pots and measure the output jack, use the switch, and jot down the pickup kohms too.

.

 

[framos]

It's likely not the pot.

Try lowering the neck pup, 3/32" treble side and 4/32" bass side for a start.

 

[Big Monk]

It's likely not the pot.

Try lowering the neck pup, 3/32" treble side and 4/32" bass side for a start.

OP said he’s adjusted to the point of frustration.

As an anecdote: My Epiphone 50s Standard came with 500kB pots. They had 20% tolerance and when I replaced them with 550kA VIPots, the difference was profound. My VIPots spec’d to 535k or so each.

When I measured the CTS units, they were all 430k or less. Within tolerance but not doing me any favors.

So I’d be curious to see the tolerance spec on the Custom Shop units.

 

[framos]

OP said he’s adjusted to the point of frustration.

Indeed.

But he also said it's louder than the bridge pickup. A lower value pot does not make a pup louder.

Maybe, a pickup set higher does. I'd check again.

Cheers.

 

[Big Monk]

Indeed.

But he also said it's louder than the bridge pickup. A lower value pot does not make a pup louder.

Maybe, a pickup set higher does. I'd check again.

Cheers.

I missed this at first. My engineer brain goes right to troubleshooting mode on stuff like this. To me there are 3 likely scenarios here:

1.) “Occam’s Razor” Single Variable - The pickup is too loud because it’s too high. It’s also muddy because the height gives too much gain.

2.) Multiple Variable - It could be that it’s too loud because it’s too high AND it’s muddy because the pot values.

3.) The Problem of Perception - I can speak from experience that frequency response and the Neck pickups natural position on the guitar sometimes makes it “appear” to be louder than the bridge even if the relative volume is equivalent.

 

[Deadletteroffice]

Indeed.

But he also said it's louder than the bridge pickup. A lower value pot does not make a pup louder.

Maybe, a pickup set higher does. I'd check again.

Cheers.

I've lowered that neck PU to a point where it's fairly lower than it's PU ring, which I've never had to do in any Gibson I've ever owned, and that's many decades and to many guitars to remember.

For those asking what it says on them, no numbers, just a Gibson logo.

It's an 2021 R7 Goldtop.

I'm going to order a wiring harness with high tolerance 550 pots and give that a try. If that doesn't solve this, these Custom Buckers will be on the market. I haven't been a fan on several guitars now.

 

[Deadletteroffice]

I measured the PUs. The neck is 8.05 and the bridge is 8.04. The pots won't give me a measurement no matter how much I try. I read this would be the case while they are all connected to one another.

 

[framos]

The similar dcr readings helps explain why the neck is relatively louder.

Having the pickup lower than the ring is common, and my experience is very different from yours: had to do it many times in my reissue guitars, probably more often than not. It depends on the neck set angle of the particular guitar.

You cannot measure the pots while in the circuit.

 

[CB91710]

.

Get a multi-meter, set it to a range higher than you want to measure, put the probes across the outer two lugs of the pots.
You'll get the actual readings for each pot. No unsoldering required.

He'll get the reading for the pickup.
You have to disconnect the pickup to get the pot reading on a guitar with interactive controls, or any other model where the wiper is connected to the switch or output such as the Les Paul.

 

[Dazza]

I understand I'd have to unsolder to measure the pots, so deos anyone know offhand what they are using?

I've tried everything adjusting the neck PU in the recent R7 I bought and the neck PU simply sounds like it's both under a pillow and louder than my bridge PU. I need more treble out of it or I'm going to rip the thing out and kick it into the pond behind my house. Overall I have to say I'm very disappointed with the Custom Buckers in general. The bridge PU is OK, but not fantastic. I swear sometimes the guitar sounds better unplugged.

Chances are the pots are of a similar value all round and it's highly unlikely there's a huge enough disparity between them to give you a result where the neck is considerably darker than the bridge. Installing a 550k harness will possibly make the guitar overall slightly brighter, but this won't change the relationship between the bridge and neck.

Most of us are used to rolling off the bridge tone to assist in balancing both pickups, and using more amp highs. Another common 'solution' to this often cited issue has been using a lower value (say 300k) pot for the bridge and increasing the overall amp treble to bring out the neck pickup.

I've not yet heard a CB be muddy. The AIII magnet became a very popular swap-in especially in the neck to help reduce low frequencies for increased clarity. It may simply be the nature of the guitar. One of my Historics has a similar issue regardless of what value pots & caps, or any of a dozen pickups I've used in the neck it 's always woody. I found a compromise that works best as can be, but it's still nowhere near as bright, clear and airy as my other Historics. The end tonal result is the product of all aspects : electronics, hardware and the woods' inherent density/resonance. While parts can be swapped out, wood is the one thing you cannot adjust.

Daz

 

[RocketKing]

Looks like a pick up swap is legitimate here

 

[Deadletteroffice]

Chances are the pots are of a similar value all round and it's highly unlikely there's a huge enough disparity between them to give you a result where the neck is considerably darker than the bridge. Installing a 550k harness will possibly make the guitar overall slightly brighter, but this won't change the relationship between the bridge and neck.

Most of us are used to rolling off the bridge tone to assist in balancing both pickups, and using more amp highs. Another common 'solution' to this often cited issue has been using a lower value (say 300k) pot for the bridge and increasing the overall amp treble to bring out the neck pickup.

I've not yet heard a CB be muddy. The AIII magnet became a very popular swap-in especially in the neck to help reduce low frequencies for increased clarity. It may simply be the nature of the guitar. One of my Historics has a similar issue regardless of what value pots & caps, or any of a dozen pickups I've used in the neck it 's always woody. I found a compromise that works best as can be, but it's still nowhere near as bright, clear and airy as my other Historics. The end tonal result is the product of all aspects : electronics, hardware and the woods' inherent density/resonance. While parts can be swapped out, wood is the one thing you cannot adjust.

Daz

I appreciate the response, I will say though that my experience with PUs in guitars has been different. I find that guitars sound how they sound when unplugged, and when plugged in sound a lot like the PU. Since the mid 80's I've been through the gambit from super high output distortion pickups, to active, to this, that and the other thing. PUs make a MASSIVE difference in my experience. I've owned maybe a dozen or more Gibson's now with Custom Buckers and out of those the only set that I have liked was in the McCready Les Paul, which I'm not entirely convinced they were standard issue Custom Buckers. They sounded, reacted and felt like Alnico II to me. This goes with single coils and anything else. I've never owned a guitar that finding the right set of PUs didn't solve the issue, if the issue was the plugged in sound. Strats, Teles, doesn't matter. PUs are probably 95% IMO and experiences.

 

[MyGuitar]

The precision of the potentiometer value +/-10...20% is not so important factor, depends more on pickup impedance. Higher pickup impedance needs a higher value of the potentiometer(s). It is a subjective question on the brightness taste too. Much more depends on the potentiometer's taper. The best tapers are rarely available and are Audio (Log) value around 20% at the midpoint. Almost all available std Audio taper pots are around 10% or less there and are "too Audio"... It is so on the Volume pots and on the Tone pots too. For Tone pot - I would suggest 500k 20% Audio with a "no-load" option for any pickups. One more question is about the tone compensation circuit on the Volume pots. I would suggest trying the "Kinman circuit" there, it is the best compromise between brightness and dullness. Some professionals prefer no compensation at all, the question of taste again.