Possible 58-59 Les Paul No Serial No.

eric ernest

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Maybe he should have done a better job of keeping an eye on it. There is nothing but conjecture that this was stolen.

I have lost track of guitars, and bicycles and even cars and motorcycles before. Some may have been stolen and some I may have lost or given away or sold in a bad state. I don't remember...to think that they all belong with my son is kind of silly.
Well said... :thumb:
 

Lightningflash

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If I was the OP, I'd sell it. If Mark Bolan was as big as you guys say he was, someone would pay some big $ for it.
I know if I had a guitar that was worth a lot, I couldn't justify keeping it. Plus, to most of us, getting a nice lump sum can change our lives....a guitar sitting in the closet doesn't.
 

Cookie-boy

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Maybe he should have done a better job of keeping an eye on it. There is nothing but conjecture that this was stolen.

I have lost track of guitars, and bicycles and even cars and motorcycles before. Some may have been stolen and some I may have lost or given away or sold in a bad state. I don't remember...to think that they all belong with my son is kind of silly.
Precisely!:thumb:
 

WholeLottaIzzy

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If I was the OP, I'd sell it. If Mark Bolan was as big as you guys say he was, someone would pay some big $ for it.
I know if I had a guitar that was worth a lot, I couldn't justify keeping it. Plus, to most of us, getting a nice lump sum can change our lives....a guitar sitting in the closet doesn't.
Even if it could be proved that it was beyond all reasonable doubt Mark Bolan's guitar, I don't think it'd be worth all that much in its current state. It's essentially only half his guitar now. It'd still be valuable, I am far too uneducated to even guess a price, but it won't break any records I don't think.
 

Rodmac

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Maybe he should have done a better job of keeping an eye on it. There is nothing but conjecture that this was stolen.

I have lost track of guitars, and bicycles and even cars and motorcycles before. Some may have been stolen and some I may have lost or given away or sold in a bad state. I don't remember...to think that they all belong with my son is kind of silly.
The statement was.... it is now where it should be and that Marc would have wanted it that way, meaning with the OP. Your response is completely wrong to this statement and my comments.

You've lost track of cars and motorcycles and don't remember !....... Don't think even Jay Leno has done that.

In respect of this situation (unlike yours), this is a case of a Rock / Pop Icon who's Most Recognisable guitar (one of only a few he owned) and played on mega hit records, has apparently resurfaced all these years later. To think his son wouldn't be interested to have it , or that Marc would want it to be in the hands of someone other than his son I find a silly statement.
 

Rikky R

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As I posted a couple of pages back in the thread, I do not believe the theft story is conjecture. The person I was in contact with who confirmed this story which has been in the Bolan narrative for quite a few years was a roadie working for Marc at the time.

I have a question about the garden photo Les Paul. How did it come to be thought of as Marc's in the first place?
 

andreww

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As I posted a couple of pages back in the thread, I do not believe the theft story is conjecture. The person I was in contact with who confirmed this story which has been in the Bolan narrative for quite a few years was a roadie working for Marc at the time.

I have a question about the garden photo Les Paul. How did it come to be thought of as Marc's in the first place?
It seems to me that the owners of this guitar since Marc owned it, have all been aware of its lineage. As to whether the guitar is "hot" or "not", the fact that in all these years nobody has bragged about owning it despite obvious knowledge of its history, leads me to believe that the guitar was probably stolen, and the people buying and selling it knew that. Why else would it be rednecked and refinished twice?
 

Philuk

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Even if it could be proved that it was beyond all reasonable doubt Mark Bolan's guitar, I don't think it'd be worth all that much in its current state. It's essentially only half his guitar now. It'd still be valuable, I am far too uneducated to even guess a price, but it won't break any records I don't think.
Old 59 wood, Marc Bolan, original PAF, it would get a decent amount definitely. No records would be broken but you could pay a good chunk off of an average mortgage I reckon.
 

dangerdog

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The statement was.... it is now where it should be and that Marc would have wanted it that way, meaning with the OP. Your response is completely wrong to this statement and my comments.

You've lost track of cars and motorcycles and don't remember !....... Don't think even Jay Leno has done that.

In respect of this situation (unlike yours), this is a case of a Rock / Pop Icon who's Most Recognisable guitar (one of only a few he owned) and played on mega hit records, has apparently resurfaced all these years later. To think his son wouldn't be interested to have it , or that Marc would want it to be in the hands of someone other than his son I find a silly statement.
and if Marc would have wanted it that way he should watched after it a bit better.

Just because he is a dead rock star doesn't mean his son has any more inherent right to own it than anyone else.

I like how you are so sure of what Marc would have wanted too....as if he is your personal buddy from beyond the grave. Maybe he is sitting in the great beyond wishing his son had no idea who his Dad was. for you to say you know what he would have wanted is silly as well.
 

Philuk

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and if Marc would have wanted it that way he should watched after it a bit better.

Just because he is a dead rock star doesn't mean his son has any more inherent right to own it than anyone else.

I like how you are so sure of what Marc would have wanted too....as if he is your personal buddy from beyond the grave. Maybe he is sitting in the great beyond wishing his son had no idea who his Dad was. for you to say you know what he would have wanted is silly as well.
If his estate was passed on to his son, and an item that belonged to Marc was stolen, then you could reasonably argue that he does have a right to the instrument, especially if he controls or is involved legally with the estate. It all depends on the Statute of Limitations and whether or not the son is even bothered.

Personally I hope the OP gets to keep it. But... If you knew it was Marc Bolans, did you just think that it was sold by him or his estate or what and now it had ended up in that shop?

Isn't there a rumour that Beano was painted black? :hmm:
 

Skerries1

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Years ago I made the mistake of getting a law degree (total waste of time!). But this topic is fairly simple. There is no statute of limitations in the UK on stolen items (especially if they can be considered artistic). There are a few loop holes,but none that clearly apply here. The estate family would have a pretty good leg to stand on, but needs to prove that the guitar was indeed owned by his dad and then misappropriated.
Seems to me that the current owners don't have a great case here even though they have possession because they were clearly aware, or suspicious, this was Bolen's stolen guitar. Anyway, thats all conjecture, because only one family can pursue this if they want to.
 

yeti

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... Anyway, thats all conjecture, because only one family can pursue this if they want to.
Yes!!! And if they don't none of this conjecture matters and if they will....none of this conjecture will matter as well. That's what many tend to forget, the peanut gallery has spoken and it doesn't matter one iota. Welcome to the internet, folks.
 

Philuk

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Years ago I made the mistake of getting a law degree (total waste of time!). But this topic is fairly simple. There is no statute of limitations in the UK on stolen items (especially if they can be considered artistic). There are a few loop holes,but none that clearly apply here. The estate family would have a pretty good leg to stand on, but needs to prove that the guitar was indeed owned by his dad and then misappropriated.
Seems to me that the current owners don't have a great case here even though they have possession because they were clearly aware, or suspicious, this was Bolen's stolen guitar. Anyway, thats all conjecture, because only one family can pursue this if they want to.
This is pretty much what I was thinking about it all. Good post.
 

zhcjok

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on another point away from the OP Guitar for one moment the Gibson signature model fantastic Guitar it is but looking at the detailed pics now in this thread the wear on the body of the aged model seems to bear little resemblance to Marcs. apart from the two Bigsby Claw marks. they have not even got the wear on the back right and there is a great pic in this thread ive not seen before they could have copied. They could have done a better job here i think with more accurate to the original aged detail. i own one of the VOS ones great guitar, really wanted one of the aged ones but could not afford it. Glad i didn't bother with an aged model now.
 

Rikky R

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It seems to me that the owners of this guitar since Marc owned it, have all been aware of its lineage. As to whether the guitar is "hot" or "not", the fact that in all these years nobody has bragged about owning it despite obvious knowledge of its history, leads me to believe that the guitar was probably stolen, and the people buying and selling it knew that. Why else would it be rednecked and refinished twice?
This is an interesting observation.

Since last posting I've checked my research notes and had the theft story re-confirmed from someone who worked for Marc in 1977 and was first to hear the news of the theft.
 

Rodmac

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and if Marc would have wanted it that way he should watched after it a bit better.

Just because he is a dead rock star doesn't mean his son has any more inherent right to own it than anyone else.

I like how you are so sure of what Marc would have wanted too....as if he is your personal buddy from beyond the grave. Maybe he is sitting in the great beyond wishing his son had no idea who his Dad was. for you to say you know what he would have wanted is silly as well.
I can see this is a pointless exercise commenting. YOU also don't understand what was said.......... please read SLOWLY.

1. Where did I say his son had a right to the guitar. I said his son WOULD BE INTERESTED IN IT, knowing it had surfaced, if indeed it is the guitar.

2. I am so sure what Marc would have wanted ! ....... I SAID , in my opinion being a father he would want his guitar to be with his son. This was in response to the other posters comment stating " it is now where it should be, and Marc would have wanted it that way". How does he know how Marc would have wanted it ? and that he would have wanted it in the hands of a stranger......... that's what that statement implies.

Here is my Original comments :-

" I'm saying, a father would want his beloved guitar to be with his son and not with some stranger. To me that is the right place for it.

I'm not arguing that the OP doesn't have the right to it as he clearly does. And he had no control over how it came into their possession.

My point is it's beyond belief to think Marc if he had the choice would not want his only child to have his guitar. To say it is now in its rightful place and that's what Marc would have wanted I find ridiculous. JMHO "

Reading & understanding clearly are two separate problems.

Lets move on..................
 

LPPILOT

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If there is no,statue of limitations on stolen Guitars there. :hmm:

As the lawyer poster commented ......I'm kinda confused myself....

Then the guitar is still in limbo right.:hmm:

Others have been buying and selling stolen property . Ignorance may not matter .is that what I'm hearing concerning ownership?

Who would want to spend ....lets say 100k just for grins , I have no idea what it's truely worth, ..then ...

......only to have a letter from some family member asking for the guitar back.

Seems it would kinda hurt the sell .....knowing if may not be yours by law.:hmm:

Seems that the present owner needs to establish once and for all HE is the rightful owner ...once and for all...by some legal channel or means . He is sole and clear owner or else the handling or selling to any new owner or heir will always be a can of worms .

I wish him nothing but good luck .
 

GeeJay

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First of all and FWIW, I think this an amazing thread that illustrates the true worth of this forum.

The information flow and discussion has been outstanding throughout. Furthermore it looks very much as if the careful detective work by those with real knowledge of the subject at hand has with high probability, identified a Les Paul that has been an important part of rock music history. Without Marc Bolan's contribution, the glam-rock era would have been diminished.

As for the thorny issue of who now rightfully owns the guitar, this can IMHO only be resolved by discussion between the present 'holder' and the Bolan family/estate. If the guitar had been stolen from my Dad, I would want it back. I would probably be prepared to come up with a finder's fee too.

On the other hand if like the OP, my Dad had purchased the guitar in good faith as a possible replica (given the 16.5 fret neck joint, pretty easy to assume it to be a copy) and then having found it to be the hidden jewel it appears to be, I would be VERY reluctant to let it go.

I hope there is a solution to this that works for all concerned.
 

Philuk

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First of all and FWIW, I think this an amazing thread that illustrates the true worth of this forum.

The information flow and discussion has been outstanding throughout. Furthermore it looks very much as if the careful detective work by those with real knowledge of the subject at hand has with high probability, identified a Les Paul that has been an important part of rock music history. Without Marc Bolan's contribution, the glam-rock era would have been diminished.

As for the thorny issue of who now rightfully owns the guitar, this can IMHO only be resolved by discussion between the present 'holder' and the Bolan family/estate. If the guitar had been stolen from my Dad, I would want it back. I would probably be prepared to come up with a finder's fee too.

On the other hand if like the OP, my Dad had purchased the guitar in good faith as a possible replica (given the 16.5 fret neck joint, pretty easy to assume it to be a copy) and then having found it to be the hidden jewel it appears to be, I would be VERY reluctant to let it go.

I hope there is a solution to this that works for all concerned.
The OP said early on that they thought that it was Marc Bolans, not a replica.

I have no idea whether they knew or not if it was stolen, and if they say they didn't, I will accept that. But personally, I wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole if I'd heard rumours of theft as you could be convicted of handling stolen goods. It does seem like the whole guitar community knew it was stolen so I'd be a little bit worried if I was involved at some point down the line.
 


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