plexi's made today using *exact* same component set as the originals?

sicko

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i'm looking to get into a plexi at some point this year and, frankly, going vintage scares me, so i'm looking for modern alternatives. i'm wondering if you guys can recommend any builders who use the exact same components as used in the original plexi's- i guess that would mean all-nos. not just 'the important' bits, but everything down to the wire. i'm interested in either a '66 or '67 100 watt. doesn't have to be a 'known' brand- guys building out of their garage with a sickly obsession/attention to detail will suffice haha. any info would be greatly appreciated!
 

Marshall & Moonshine

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The transformers are where it gets tricky. Plus, by most accounts, they were pretty inconsistent, so just "getting the circuit done" is probably close enough.
Ceriatone, maybe?
 

RAG7890

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Metropoulos, Germino, Wallace. The list is really long.

But, no one is using the exact same components even when using NOS.

NOS Transformers are arguably impossible to get but you can get great Replicas.

Being a Plexi you only need NOS EL34's which are relatively low cost compared to say GEC Osram KT66's.

Then you have to consider the Speakers. What Caps. What Resistors. Not all Vintage Amps are great.

Do yourself a favour Marko & maybe buy a Metroplex & have the best of several options and save yourself a load of time & money.

I've been researching the JTM45 come JTM45/100 thing for over 6 months & it is hard work, especially when you can't play them and a lot of YT Clips sound like $hit IMHO.

:hmm:.........how long is a piece of string & how deep is that Rabbit hole? :)

Cheers, Rudi.
 

Louie

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You can get the same sound even without 100% identical parts:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSv3RATOXjM[/ame]

There's no perceptible difference in tone, yet inside they're not identical.

Unless you're trying to pull a Music Ground and pass it off for a real vintage amp, you don't need all NOS components.
 

Pwrmac7600

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I am confused as to why going vintage would scare you, yet having an amp built from vintage parts that have been laying around since the 60's or 70's wouldn't?
I would think the vintage marshall has an advantage that the components have been "burned in" as opposed to components that have been sitting on a shelf 40 - 50 some odd years.
And as stated good luck with the transformers, I am in the midst of having a jcm800 clone built and I for some reason got the idea to attempt to track down some drake tranny's and the only ones I came across were mounted in amps that were selling for $1500 - $1800.... and those are only from the 80's.I think having a handwired Plexi built with some nice replica tranny's would serve you well. Not so sure you would hear the difference in caps and resistors, simply because neither NOS or new would be "burned in".
 

frankv

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No guarantees any Marshall you clone will sound remotely like what you hear in your head. In the 6 or 7 Vintage Marshalls I have had none of them sounded the same. Not that any one sounded bad.. There was just not a consensus on one perfect Marshall tone. Building one from scratch will not sound like the late 60's and early 70s uncapped Marshalls of the past. Besides that, what you hear on the records of those days are heavily processed recordings. So what is really the true Marshall tone? Perhaps Hendrix live at Woodstock.. and those days are over.
 

rclausen

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You can get the same sound even without 100% identical parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSv3RATOXjM

There's no perceptible difference in tone, yet inside they're not identical.

Unless you're trying to pull a Music Ground and pass it off for a real vintage amp, you don't need all NOS components.

I thought the vintage one was noticably smoother. They both sounded great though
 

wizard1183

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No guarantees any Marshall you clone will sound remotely like what you hear in your head. In the 6 or 7 Vintage Marshalls I have had none of them sounded the same. Not that any one sounded bad.. There was just not a consensus on one perfect Marshall tone. Building one from scratch will not sound like the late 60's and early 70s uncapped Marshalls of the past. Besides that, what you hear on the records of those days are heavily processed recordings. So what is really the true Marshall tone? Perhaps Hendrix live at Woodstock.. and those days are over.

Hmmmm 60s early 70s were heavily processed? How? I know Black Sabbath records weren't cause you can hear the pick scrapes and chirps from pick hitting strings as well as string slides/nuances....
 

madryan

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The big limitation with building period correct amps is mostly voltages and tubes. Old Marshalls ran crazy high B+ compared to today, and finding tubes that'll tolerate those voltages is going to be an issue. It does make a difference on the tone, but not one you can't get around.

The most "vintage correct" trannies you can get these days with regards to construction is probably Magnetic Components. They're also quite affordable and sound great, and most importantly, they're reliable. Heyboer is great too, which includes the special winds they do for Wallace and Metro, both of which I've used.

Everything else is electrical engineering. You can use some old NOS CC resistors at important points in the signal path, but it's really not necessary. You can use whatever snake oil capacitor is being hocked to amp builders or NOS if you'd like, but as long as everything is in spec and you use high quality stuff, your amp will sound right.

If I were you, I'd have an amp built by someone who knows what they're doing like Metro. Spec it however they say, to the period you're trying to "capture" and call it good. Failing that, I'd have someone like Trace at Voodoo hook you up with a build, or any number of other great builders who have lots of experience tuning that particular circuit.

Here's my opinion from building several of them... 90% of a great sounding amp is simply getting the build right. It's best practices, lead dress, proper grounding, smart component choice, etc. You pick those little skills up along the way, and "Vintage" plexi's weren't the best built amps in the world when it came to grounding schemes and such, and sometimes they sorta threw whatever they had in the parts bin in there.

The last 10% or so is the "voodoo magic" of really understanding how to tweak the thing once it's together and you really want to dial it in. How swapping out this cap, or that resistor will make it "perfect" so to speak.

FWIW, I really like Dale Vishay MF resistors lol. They're not "vintage" but they're reliable, super quiet, and the amp stays the way you built it forever.
 

Rodmac

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I thought the vintage one was noticably smoother. They both sounded great though

Yep the '67 sounds smoother, mature. The reason old Marshalls all sound different is the tolerances of the components were all over the shop.
That gives them each their character.

Boutique builders sift through endless components to use the tightest tolerances. Whilst this is great, it makes the amps sound a bit sterile to me.

It's hard to capture the essence of a Plexi on a You Tube clip. You need to experience it in person. My Plexi's have that organic warmth, bell like chime and Classic Tone when turned up. Just personal preference but I like to know I'm plugged into the Real Deal through Orig T1221 003 Pulsonics
when I play.
 

V2

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Apart from the difficulties in getting vintage/NOS parts, there is a difficulty in figuring out what component values to use. One choice would be to follow the schematic, but the values in that nice-sounding vintage amp have certainly drifted from the original values (especially the carbon comp resistors). So it would be better to find an amp that sounds good to you, and then measure the Rs and Cs in that specific amp. You could then use new carbon film resistors with 2% tolerance around the measured values.

This isn't a new idea, by the way. I first read about it in Dan Torres's 'Inside Tube Amps' back in the mid 1990s...
 

madryan

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Yep the '67 sounds smoother, mature. The reason old Marshalls all sound different is the tolerances of the components were all over the shop.
That gives them each their character.

Boutique builders sift through endless components to use the tightest tolerances. Whilst this is great, it makes the amps sound a bit sterile to me.

It's hard to capture the essence of a Plexi on a You Tube clip. You need to experience it in person. My Plexi's have that organic warmth, bell like chime and Classic Tone when turned up. Just personal preference but I like to know I'm plugged into the Real Deal through Orig T1221 003 Pulsonics
when I play.

What are your amps pushing for B+?

That's a big deal IMO when it comes to how a NMV amp responds and sounds at the end of the day.

my last "real" superlead was running like 500v on the plates, which obviously, modern tubes might have issues with.
 

LJGriggs

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I don't know about the "exact" components used in the original plexi amps, but I recommend looking at Germino Amplification. I have the Germino Masonette (25 watt version of a "plexi") which is no longer offered, but Greg has several models available to choose from. They are all hand wired and use top notch components.
Germino Amplifiers
 

sicko

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You can get the same sound even without 100% identical parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSv3RATOXjM

There's no perceptible difference in tone, yet inside they're not identical.

Unless you're trying to pull a Music Ground and pass it off for a real vintage amp, you don't need all NOS components.

I beg to differ re: no perceptible difference in tone as the Marshall, to my ears, sounds a good bit less harsh.

I don't think having a single amp made to to exact vintage specs using all nos components purely for my own gratification quite equates to me trying to pull a Music Ground... bit surprised that's the only scenario that occurred to you.

If it'd be as tricky as people are suggesting then I'll probably go Germino or Metro as suggested. I've known about both for years, but was hoping some other names might pop up as well.
 

mdubya

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The best sounding amp I have played through is a JTM 50 clone, based off MetroAmp specs.

This has been directly compared to at least three vintage Plexis (real deal 100 watt 1968/69 Marshall Plexis). The JTM sounds better mostly due to the drifting values in the vintage amps. Repairing the drifting components would probably yield improvements, but the owner refuses to "fix" anything in his original amps (who can blame him?).

FWIW - he had a set of Weber G12M clone speakers that sounded every bit as good as the dozen or so vintage Celestions he has (and in comparison to a pair of Pulsonic G12M graybacks I have in a JCM 800 1936 212 Cab).

I would just order a Metro Plex, personally.

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFIFFLLde_M[/ame]

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaj9EAdBlLE[/ame]

Maybe I will have the $$$ by the time the 50 watt model comes out. :hmm:
 

wizard1183

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Yep the '67 sounds smoother, mature. The reason old Marshalls all sound different is the tolerances of the components were all over the shop.
That gives them each their character.

Boutique builders sift through endless components to use the tightest tolerances. Whilst this is great, it makes the amps sound a bit sterile to me.

It's hard to capture the essence of a Plexi on a You Tube clip. You need to experience it in person. My Plexi's have that organic warmth, bell like chime and Classic Tone when turned up. Just personal preference but I like to know I'm plugged into the Real Deal through Orig T1221 003 Pulsonics
when I play.
:lol:Well....not everyone has $15000+ to spend on a 67 Marshall half-stack. Not like Marshall is still building these things where everyone on the block can have those "original" tones.
 

mdubya

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:lol:Well....not everyone has $15000+ to spend on a 67 Marshall half-stack. Not like Marshall is still building these things where everyone on the block can have those "original" tones.

Of course the Marshall reissues are EXACTLY the same as those produced in the 60's. :p

:D
 

mdubya

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The best sounding amp I have played through is a JTM 50 clone, based off MetroAmp specs.

This has been directly compared to at least three vintage Plexis (real deal 100 watt 1968/69 Marshall Plexis). The JTM sounds better mostly due to the drifting values in the vintage amps. Repairing the drifting components would probably yield improvements, but the owner refuses to "fix" anything in his original amps (who can blame him?).

FWIW - he had a set of Weber G12M clone speakers that sounded every bit as good as the dozen or so vintage Celestions he has (and in comparison to a pair of Pulsonic G12M graybacks I have in a JCM 800 1936 212 Cab).

I would just order a Metro Plex, personally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFIFFLLde_M

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaj9EAdBlLE

Maybe I will have the $$$ by the time the 50 watt model comes out. :hmm:

The first 1:10 of this video. :shock: :dude:

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKFvhPPDLfE[/ame]
 

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