Picking Problems

[colchar]

I posted this in another picking thread but do not want to threadjack that one and figured I should repost it in its own thread so here goes.

My picking has gone to shit lately and it is really becoming frustrating. I have never liked my technique when strumming as I have a tendency to end up with the pick barely held between my thumb and first finger (right up near the top of the pick). I might start strumming with a good grip, but I quickly end up holding the pick as if it is a wet piece of paper that I am worried about tearing or something gross that I am not happy about holding. This is particularly true when using upstrokes.

So lately I have been checking out different picking techniques to try to resolve this. I can find techniques that work for single note stuff but do not work for strumming or I can find techniques that work for strumming but not single note stuff. But I cannot seem to find one that works well for both and that I am comfortable with. I am seriously starting to think that I need to stop trying to work on other stuff for a little while (ie. forget about my fretting hand completely) and concentrate solely on my picking hand in order to tear down my technique and start over right from my grip to my picking and strumming motion until I am comfortable with a new technique.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before (or maybe something similar in which their fretting hand goes to pot on them)? Anyone got any advice for getting through it? Anyone got any advice on grips and picking techniques?

 

[Nay]

I posted this in another picking thread but do not want to threadjack that one and figured I should repost it in its own thread so here goes.

My picking has gone to shit lately and it is really becoming frustrating. I have never liked my technique when strumming as I have a tendency to end up with the pick barely held between my thumb and first finger (right up near the top of the pick). I might start strumming with a good grip, but I quickly end up holding the pick as if it is a wet piece of paper that I am worried about tearing or something gross that I am not happy about holding. This is particularly true when using upstrokes.

So lately I have been checking out different picking techniques to try to resolve this. I can find techniques that work for single note stuff but do not work for strumming or I can find techniques that work for strumming but not single note stuff. But I cannot seem to find one that works well for both and that I am comfortable with. I am seriously starting to think that I need to stop trying to work on other stuff for a little while (ie. forget about my fretting hand completely) and concentrate solely on my picking hand in order to tear down my technique and start over right from my grip to my picking and strumming motion until I am comfortable with a new technique.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before (or maybe something similar in which their fretting hand goes to pot on them)? Anyone got any advice for getting through it? Anyone got any advice on grips and picking techniques?

Yes, lots of people get this. I would say most guitarists hold their pick in one way, and dont differentiate it from strumming to picking, bar maybe pulling in a tighter grip for picking.

It all comes down to your concept of holding the pick and how to strum. Strumming is actually really quite light. So, you'll find you'll hold it less firmly than you will with picking. Eventually, where your thumb and index finger meet, will be the pivot point of the pick as you let it bend or flick in either direction.

If you look on outlaws thread about learning new songs (the last post/one of the last posts) then you'll see I gave advise about a way to develop a picking technique. Strumming is essentially the same thing with a longer "throw".

And I assume you have looked up the "proper way to hold a pick" on google or whatever. Although everyone is different, almost everyone will use something like that.

Again, dont "clamp" the pick, just rest it in place. Also take one with you wherever you go and when fidgeting pick edges of things around you, or your fingers knuckle or somebodies nose. It will just come to you.

 

[colchar]

I think part of my problem is that I hold the pick between the pad of my first finger and the pad of my thumb with those two fingers forming something of a circle (sort of like when you give someone the 'OK' sign) and the pressure coming from the tips/pads of the fingers. I keep my hand like that when picking single notes but have a habit of extending those two fingers until they are flat/pointing straight out when strumming. In doing so, it seems that I am rolling the pick forward and the pressure is no longer coming from the pads of the fingers but from a little further back (say just under the knuckle on the first finger).

Maybe starting off holding the pick with my fingers straight out as if I am strumming is the way to go because then I can grip the pick more on the pads and, when I draw the fingers in for single notes (forming the OK sign), I will just be choking up on it a bit more. So instead of starting like I am picking single notes, I can start as if I am strumming and compensate from there - in other words, do the reverse of what I am doing now.

I've got to head out shopping but I'll try that method when I get home.

 

[HOT-BRIT]

when this happens I take a break and come back to it refreshed

 

[Nay]

I understand exactly what your doing. Everyone does that to start with.

This takes some time to get comfortable with, but I'll see if I can explain it.

If your strumming hand is the right hand (I'm a lefty, so reversing this!), hold your thumb out horizontally. Curle your index finger so that the end of your finger is vertical (or perpendicular) so the thumbs "pad" as you say is resting on the left hand side of your index fingers final digit (or distal phalanges, as the final digits are know as!). The pick rests in there with the pointy end vertically down, same as your index finger!

But as always, a picture speaks a million words! So I found this...

Although you will no doubtedly end up more relaxed than that, practice with that shape! You'll find that if anything, you'll knock the pick out of place rather than squeeze it out of your grip, but rectifying that come with practice and technique!

Remember, dont squeeze, just gently hold it in place and let the pick flick around a little bit!

 

[colchar]

I understand exactly what your doing. Everyone does that to start with.

This takes some time to get comfortable with, but I'll see if I can explain it.

If your strumming hand is the right hand (I'm a lefty, so reversing this!), hold your thumb out horizontally. Curle your index finger so that the end of your finger is vertical (or perpendicular) so the thumbs "pad" as you say is resting on the left hand side of your index fingers final digit (or distal phalanges, as the final digits are know as!). The pick rests in there with the pointy end vertically down, same as your index finger!

But as always, a picture speaks a million words! So I found this...

Although you will no doubtedly end up more relaxed than that, practice with that shape! You'll find that if anything, you'll knock the pick out of place rather than squeeze it out of your grip, but rectifying that come with practice and technique!

Remember, dont squeeze, just gently hold it in place and let the pick flick around a little bit!

Thanks. I am wondering why I reverted back to an issue that I should have gotten past a while ago.

I hold it in the basic shape pictured above but using the pad of the index finger and I think your suggestion of using the side of the finger is a good one as it would discourage me from extending the fingers as I tend to do. Maintaining that shape, or a slightly relaxed version of that shape, would definitely be an improvement. When picking single notes I maintain that shape so it might not be too tough to train myself to maintain it while strumming.

 

[colchar]

I also grabbed some different picks when at the store tonight and am finding that I quite like them thus far and that they prevent me from moving the pick around as I had been with normal picks as there simply isn't enough pick available to do that with these.

The first is the Tortex Jazz (but a different gauge than the one shown here):

And the second is the Tortex Pitch Black Jazz III (again, a different gauge than the one shown here):

I find I like this second one more (not sure why as they are very similar) and think I will keep using it for a few more days to see if my initial impressions continue.

 

[fsenseman]

...And I assume you have looked up the "proper way to hold a pick" on google or whatever. Although everyone is different, almost everyone will use something like that.

I looked up "proper way to hold a pick" on google and the first link I got was this:

Learning Guitar - Lesson One - How to Hold a Pick

Doesn't look like anything I do And to think, all these years I've been doing it "wrong"....

 

[Nay]

I looked up "proper way to hold a pick" on google and the first link I got was this:

Learning Guitar - Lesson One - How to Hold a Pick

Doesn't look like anything I do And to think, all these years I've been doing it "wrong"....

Tbh, thats still a bit interesting how they hold it.

As I've said though, you start with the proper posture, and you'll find a natural way to hold it soon afterwards.

I actually met someone who holds their pick inbetween their index and middle finger, as he did some crazy good thumb pick'in and plucking technique with the occasional strum. It blew my mind...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Colch, if you can't find an easy solution, try drilling some holes in your picks. Or perhaps roughen the surface with one of the rougheners found in inner-tube repair kits.

Me, I hold the pick between the side of my index finger (at the distal knuckle, right behind the nail) and thumb for playing single-line stuff or power-chord chugging, or between the pads of index, middle, and thumb for strumming.

 

[fsenseman]

Tbh, thats still a bit interesting how they hold it.

As I've said though, you start with the proper posture, and you'll find a natural way to hold it soon afterwards.

I actually met someone who holds their pick inbetween their index and middle finger, as he did some crazy good thumb pick'in and plucking technique with the occasional strum. It blew my mind...

I've been working on developing something like that as well. It's hard to roll the pick in and out though and I believe it would take me quite awhile to perfect it. Kind of like making a coin "disappear". Plus you have to deal with the issue of not having full mobility in your picking fingers as two of them have to be in some sort of contact with the pick (index and middle) My goal was to alternate between full finger picking and a more than gentle strum for certain parts of a song I've been working on. I got it to sound ok, but to really sound good it'll take a lot of time. Certainly a novelty type of approach for songs written with that technique in mind. I've also though about fabricating a pick with a very wide back end, with grooves so it would stay in between your fingers without a lot of effort and make it easier to manipulate. Too much time on my hands I guess.... Maybe I need a switchblade type of ring pick. Flick you hand out and you have a pick. Oh yeah, it's getting late

Kind Regards,
Fleet

 

[Nay]

I've been working on developing something like that as well. It's hard to roll the pick in and out though and I believe it would take me quite awhile to perfect it. Kind of like making a coin "disappear". Plus you have to deal with the issue of not having full mobility in your picking fingers as two of them have to be in some sort of contact with the pick (index and middle) My goal was to alternate between full finger picking and a more than gentle strum for certain parts of a song I've been working on. I got it to sound ok, but to really sound good it'll take a lot of time. Certainly a novelty type of approach for songs written with that technique in mind. I've also though about fabricating a pick with a very wide back end, with grooves so it would stay in between your fingers without a lot of effort and make it easier to manipulate. Too much time on my hands I guess.... Maybe I need a switchblade type of ring pick. Flick you hand out and you have a pick. Oh yeah, it's getting late

Kind Regards,
Fleet

Haha, awesome. Ye this guy strummed with the pick inbetween he index and middle finger. Played low stuff with the thumb and high stuff with the ring and pinky fingers. It was just crazy.

Can't remember which artist has the trick of flicking the pickup into the grooves of his palm, holding it there whilst needed, then quickly getting it back. That must take some practice! Might've been John Frusciante from the chili's...

 

[colchar]

I looked up "proper way to hold a pick" on google and the first link I got was this:

Learning Guitar - Lesson One - How to Hold a Pick

Doesn't look like anything I do And to think, all these years I've been doing it "wrong"....

That is the traditional method but it has been out of fashion for a while.

 

[colchar]

Colch, if you can't find an easy solution, try drilling some holes in your picks. Or perhaps roughen the surface with one of the rougheners found in inner-tube repair kits.

Me, I hold the pick between the side of my index finger (at the distal knuckle, right behind the nail) and thumb for playing single-line stuff or power-chord chugging, or between the pads of index, middle, and thumb for strumming.

It isn't a slippage issue, I am straightening out my fingers as causing them to roll back on the pick so that I am holding it towards the edge rather than choked down.

The side of finger method was helping when I tried it last night. I think that, when combined with the smaller picks, might just work and break me of this habit. I haven't had the chance to play yet today but will do so soon and will see how it goes.

 

[Scooter2112]

Haha, awesome. Ye this guy strummed with the pick inbetween he index and middle finger. Played low stuff with the thumb and high stuff with the ring and pinky fingers. It was just crazy.

Can't remember which artist has the trick of flicking the pickup into the grooves of his palm, holding it there whilst needed, then quickly getting it back. That must take some practice! Might've been John Frusciante from the chili's...

Joe Bonamassa does the hide the pick thing. I saw it explained in one of his YT videos.

 

[fsenseman]

That is the traditional method but it has been out of fashion for a while.

Was it traditional for a particular style of guitar and/or playing? Just curious as I have never seen it before (though there's some nagging thought I might have seen in a Mel Bay intro lessons book way back when....)

 

[colchar]

Was it traditional for a particular style of guitar and/or playing? Just curious as I have never seen it before (though there's some nagging thought I might have seen in a Mel Bay intro lessons book way back when....)

I think it is just the traditional method for normal guitar playing as opposed to for a specific style. And yeah, you probably saw it in one of those books as I am fairly certain that I did as well and I am betting that it is still being shown in books which haven't had their pictures updated in ages.

 

[Nay]

At the end of the day, that is just a more "closed" posture of the same principle. Everyone works out their own way, but its better to develop your own way around the principles, rather than pick up bad habits. If you start like that, you might open your hand a bit more, or if you start with the method I talk about then you (like me) might curl your finger a bit more. both will lead to a similar "natural" posture.