Pedal Power, Daisy Chains, Grounds - Enlighten me!

[Lester]

I've thought about using an RC vehicle battery for this, I have a bunch sitting around and a good charger, I'm sure one of the 5000mah 12V ones would last a good long time.

Good idea.

 

[diavolo]

I've thought about using an RC vehicle battery for this, I have a bunch sitting around and a good charger, I'm sure one of the 5000mah 12V ones would last a good long time.

BAD IDEA!

12v would fry your pedals. most pedals only handle 9v and are usually negative center. dont want to make an error on the polarity too. do not connect that battery to your pedals.

5000 mAh would be more than enough for a day or two worth of powering an above average pedal board. if all your pedals combined draw 500mA then you have 10 hours of run time. its math.

12v would be a deadly and expensive mistake to make. DO NOT hook up a 12v power supply unless your pedals call for it.

 

[Brek]

My household mains is terrible, I only found out how terrible it is when I plugged my motu m4 into a wall wart usb psu. The signal from my iPad became noisier and much more hum, which explains why my amps have a lot of noise in the background. So I might have to spend on a decent fully isolated pedal supply. I have one of these at mo:

Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-5 Pro

Multi-Power Adapter for Effect Pedals 5 Isolated, filtered & short-circuit protected outputs eliminate noise and hum, High capacity for modern digital effects, LED monitoring at each output, Connections Output 1 - 3: 9 V DC @ max. 300 mA...

www.thomann.de

Nor sure if it’s got a transformer on each output, says isolated and filtered, but the back ground noise is same as this one:

Guitar Pedal Power Supply - Exqline Effect Pedal Board Power Supply 10 Isolated DC Output for 9V/12V/18V Effect Pedal Power with Bright Blue LED Isolated Short Circuit/Overcurrent Protection: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

Buy Guitar Pedal Power Supply - Exqline Effect Pedal Board Power Supply 10 Isolated DC Output for 9V/12V/18V Effect Pedal Power with Bright Blue LED Isolated Short Circuit/Overcurrent Protection. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I would really like to see all external psu requiring devices to adopt the micro usb connector as 9v batteries are wasteful and damaging to the environment, and a pita when they need replacing. I have a few big usb powerbanks that would run a board all day long and a simple swap when they need recharging.

 

[Lester]

12v would fry your pedals. most pedals only handle 9v and are usually negative center. dont want to make an error on the polarity too. do not connect that battery to your pedals.

I'm assuming he was thinking of building a voltage regulator / reducer.

My household mains is terrible, I only found out how terrible it is when I plugged my motu m4 into a wall wart usb psu. The signal from my iPad became noisier and much more hum, which explains why my amps have a lot of noise in the background. So I might have to spend on a decent fully isolated pedal supply. I have one of these at mo:

Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-5 Pro

Multi-Power Adapter for Effect Pedals 5 Isolated, filtered & short-circuit protected outputs eliminate noise and hum, High capacity for modern digital effects, LED monitoring at each output, Connections Output 1 - 3: 9 V DC @ max. 300 mA...

www.thomann.de

Nor sure if it’s got a transformer on each output, says isolated and filtered, but the back ground noise is same as this one:

Guitar Pedal Power Supply - Exqline Effect Pedal Board Power Supply 10 Isolated DC Output for 9V/12V/18V Effect Pedal Power with Bright Blue LED Isolated Short Circuit/Overcurrent Protection: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

Buy Guitar Pedal Power Supply - Exqline Effect Pedal Board Power Supply 10 Isolated DC Output for 9V/12V/18V Effect Pedal Power with Bright Blue LED Isolated Short Circuit/Overcurrent Protection. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I would really like to see all external psu requiring devices to adopt the micro usb connector as 9v batteries are wasteful and damaging to the environment, and a pita when they need replacing. I have a few big usb powerbanks that would run a board all day long and a simple swap when they need recharging.

If your mains power is really that bad, I'd start with a filter to plug the pedal power supply and your amplifier into. Something like this:

Amazon.com

I'd be surprised, but pleasantly, if those pedal power supplies were truly isolated for that cost. Do you have any interest in opening yours up and taking a look at the circuitry?

 

[Brek]

I have looked inside the caline one, def not proper iso outputs, I will open the Harley Benton one no worries about that.
I think some of the mains issue might be the mains earth is not fully grounded, will have to check on that, McWilliams prolly call a sparkie in to check and fit a proper earth if not upto spec. The only thing I attempted to solve it was put ferrite rings on the mains leads at the amp/mixer/device etc. Don’t think it made any difference.

This previous topic by me has pics of the caline:

Any electronics guys able to comment on these pedal board psu components?

Just wanting to know if this psu is uptown the job of powering my expensive pedals. Any one able to say what the design and caps are like good, bad, indifferent?

www.mylespaul.com

 

[chef]

BAD IDEA!

12v would fry your pedals. most pedals only handle 9v and are usually negative center. dont want to make an error on the polarity too. do not connect that battery to your pedals.

5000 mAh would be more than enough for a day or two worth of powering an above average pedal board. if all your pedals combined draw 500mA then you have 10 hours of run time. its math.

12v would be a deadly and expensive mistake to make. DO NOT hook up a 12v power supply unless your pedals call for it.

Yah, promise not to do that, I'd use a 3S battery (nominal 12V) regulate it to 9V and put a low voltage alarm (they make them for using LiPos in RC cars that don't have low voltage cutoff. I Could also use a 2S battery but only get about 8V nominal/8.5V so too low. 2S are good for making USB battery packs though.

Edit: could also use battery to power an iso supply that is looking for a 12V wall wort like the one mentioned above.

 

[dspelman]

Also, why does the daisy chain cause noise?

Probably have to ask some folks in West Hollywood about that.

 

[diavolo]

I would really like to see all external psu requiring devices to adopt the micro usb connector as 9v batteries are wasteful and damaging to the environment, and a pita when they need replacing. I have a few big usb powerbanks that would run a board all day long and a simple swap when they need recharging.

you can build one. thats what i did.
theres a few tricks though, because the USB battery banks cant have too high an output in amps.
2 amp is the max, because the step up converters from 5v to 9v cant handle more than that amperage in, and can only output about 1000mA each. You also have to reverse the polarity because most pedals want negative center plugs.
I can help you spec parts if you want. Its all plug and play. So its easy to build if you know what parts to get.

 

[Brek]

you can build one. thats what i did.
theres a few tricks though, because the USB battery banks cant have too high an output in amps.
2 amp is the max, because the step up converters from 5v to 9v cant handle more than that amperage in, and can only output about 1000mA each. You also have to reverse the polarity because most pedals want negative center plugs.
I can help you spec parts if you want. Its all plug and play. So its easy to build if you know what parts to get.

Yeah that would be very cool, I want to build one. I have 2x anker power core 26800 and one usb C 2000pd which has an 18v output, I wonder if that might me better as 2 of my pedals use 18v.?

 

[diavolo]

Yeah that would be very cool, I want to build one. I have 2x anker power core 26800 and one usb C 2000pd which has an 18v output, I wonder if that might me better as 2 of my pedals use 18v.?

than Anker wont work, i just looked up the specs and it puts out 3 times the maximum output the voltage step up converters can handle. it can do up to 3A each port or a total of 6A. you have to have a power source that outputs 2A or less. (i mentioned this above)
not sure I found the correct one for the "2000pd" but it also looks to be too powerful, putting out the same amperage as the power core.

i didnt see anything about 18v though? maybe link me to the actual device so i can see the specs.
you wont be able to take a 5v usb source and get it to 18v in any simple way, so its unlikely you can power 2 18v pedals with a USB battery bank.

 

[Brek]

Ahh, ok, your right there is no 18v, I am not sure why I thought there was now, bought it a couple of years ago to charge MacBook via usb C.
I think I found one that will do the job,

PowerCore 13000

The Anker Advantage: Join the 10 million+ powered by our leading technology. Upgraded Capacity: The successor to PowerCore 10400—identical compact size but packed with even more power. Charges an iPhone 8 almost 5 times, an iPhone X or Samsung Galaxy S8 3 times, or an iPad Air 2 once. Light and...

uk.anker.com

13000mah, 2 x usb sockets max 3amp output shared between the two usb sockets. So if I make two of your Adapters I will be within limits?

 

[Lester]

FYI - I recently pulled apart some USB cords that had gone bad to farm the wire for other work (Visualize The Far Side "When USB cords go bad").

Surprisingly, they were unshielded. I expected a ground wrap setup, but it was just two plain conductors, no shield, no twisted pair. Not the best to avoid noise.

 

[diavolo]

13000mah, 2 x usb sockets max 3amp output shared between the two usb sockets. So if I make two of your Adapters I will be within limits?

that one is sort of iffy, each port is 2.4A or 3A max total when theyre both in use.
If you run both at the same time its ok, but i don't know that both will be drawing power all the time and at the same.
Lower power would be safer. then you don't have to worry about any failures.
2A total would be the best.

 

[diavolo]

FYI - I recently pulled apart some USB cords that had gone bad to farm the wire for other work (Visualize The Far Side "When USB cords go bad").

Surprisingly, they were unshielded. I expected a ground wrap setup, but it was just two plain conductors, no shield, no twisted pair. Not the best to avoid noise.

was it a charging cable? not really designed for audio.

 

[Brek]

Ok, I’ll find one that’s within those spec’s, what parts are required for the gizmo then?

 

[diavolo]

Ok, I’ll find one that’s within those spec’s, what parts are required for the gizmo then?

USB battery bank that has 2A total or no more than 2A each port.
USB on/off switches if you want to be fancy
Step up voltage converters, 5v to 9V
Adapters to reverse polarity to have a negative center
then a daisy chain to power your pedals with.

if youre going to buy everything on amazon i can link you to the stuff i bought.

 

[Brek]

Thanks I thought I was going to have to build the step up, lol. That list as is is all I need then, cool. I have a couple of polarity reversers already from my power supplies. So just need the daisy chain and transformer.

Found one that does 12v as well, that means I can as long as devices don’t draw more than .8A @12v still use the power station to power the pedals. If a pedal needs more than that, I can use the second transformer to power directly, dude this is so awesome, clean power and no messing about with wasteful batteries.

above is now redundant lol, did a bit more digging and found step up that does 12v at 2A, so it’s on its way to me. Awesome.

You have opened a world of possibilities to me, I have a mobile WiFi router with big antennas I can take on location now that I have been wanting to do for ages, will have a much stronger /faster connection. Thankyou very much.

 

[Lester]

was it a charging cable? not really designed for audio.

Still invites interference. Laptop charging cables are always the shielded wire type.

But my point is that using USB cables for powering pedals could highlight the same issue: unshielded cables picking up interference.

 

[diavolo]

Still invites interference. Laptop charging cables are always the shielded wire type.

But my point is that using USB cables for powering pedals could highlight the same issue: unshielded cables picking up interference.

typically (low) power cables aren't shielded as far as i know.
if its a cable going to a battery pack it shouldnt matter.

 

[Lester]

Hey boys: If Joyo can sell one of these for $10, shouldn't we be able to build one for $3 per line and perhaps incorporate it one per line in a filter box?