Page tone

yawny

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Bingo bango on the Telecaster comments above me.

Page claims to have used a Tele for the entirety of Zep I and most of Zep II and claims that the Stairway solo was done with the Tele through the infamous Supro combo.

Blasphemy, i know, but Teles are more versatile than most think.
 

GitFiddle

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Not trying to be Debbie Downer but, why so much time, money and expense to chase "Page tone"? Its already been done. I'm sure Jimmy Page could pick up any one of our guitars with any type of pickup and amp and he would sound like Jimmy Page. Unless you are paying your rent playing in a Zep tribute band, wouldn't it be more effective to chase your own tone, that fits your own style?

That dude in the video above, sounds real close to Jimmy Page's tone and his licks sound a lot like Jimmy Page's licks, but... its not going to fool anybody with their eyes closed. He's not Jimmy Page and will never sound exactly like him :cool:

Every person has their own style no matter how much they try to recreate someone else. Each of us humans are amazingly unique, like a snowflake. That's where the magic of your sound will come from. Just sayin'. :cool:

Not an invite to a flame war, just a simple observation from a crusty old picker. :D

The biggest thrill I get when doing a cover song at a gig, is not when someone says, "you nailed it, that sounded just like the record", but when someone comes up to you pumped up and says, "that sounded better than the original!". You have to own a song with your own style. That's when it becomes believable to the listener.

It kind of reminds me of Rich Little. One of the most amazing impressionists that ever lived. Impeccable talent and a joy to watch but at the same time I always felt a little sad for him because he never had his own identity. During interviews he could barely even speak in his own voice.

I guess the reason I ask this stems from last Saturday night. Last spring I switched from a band with two guitars to a new band with only me on guitar. (The singer sometimes strums acoustic when it fits and he knows the chords). This change added a lot of new pressure I never had in the last band. The guys in this band like to do "One Way Out" by ABB. I've always been able to pull it off in the past on occasion if it was a request. But this time I spent a week working on it every night at home. I thought it would be a cool gimmick to pull off both Dicky's and Duane's parts and try to sound like two different guitar players. I worked up Dicky's first solo, then worked up all of Duane's slide licks on the rest.

Every time we play it now, I get angry and frustrated because I am playing the parts but hearing the original live version in my head and noticing every note and nuance that I play that is not exactly like what is playing in my head. By the end of the song I feel frustrated and disappointed. (Not that anyone in the audience really knows the difference for the most part).

Last Saturday night, I thought we had made it through the whole night without doing that song. Right near the end of the last set, the guys wanted to do it. It was a great night and the band was really tight and I was feeling loose and fluid. As soon as we kicked it off, I just thought to myself, "f*ck it, I'm going to play this one the way I want it". I just turned off the original version in my head and just jammed the crap out of it with my slide. At the end of the song, the guys in the band were floored. They said that was the best we "ever" sounded doing that song. I quit trying to sound like the record and made it my own. Then I was happy as a clam afterward.

(I think I had too much coffee today. :cool: I'll shut up now...)
 

Dazza

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I think Dazza was referring to the live performances.

Thanks for the back-up mate.I thought I was pretty clear in saying I feel it's the live tone we refer to as the 'Page' tone.There's just too many varied recorded tones to choose from to put under 1 title.Though in truth no matter what he plays it's unmistakably Jimmy,the one and only.
 

River

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Last Saturday night, I thought we had made it through the whole night without doing that song. Right near the end of the last set, the guys wanted to do it. It was a great night and the band was really tight and I was feeling loose and fluid. As soon as we kicked it off, I just thought to myself, "f*ck it, I'm going to play this one the way I want it". I just turned off the original version in my head and just jammed the crap out of it with my slide. At the end of the song, the guys in the band were floored. They said that was the best we "ever" sounded doing that song. I quit trying to sound like the record and made it my own. Then I was happy as a clam afterward.
:applause:

Great post. And that's the answer to the question "why not just do it your own way?". I go through an abbreviated version of the very same process every time I hear something, old or new, and say to myself "I'm going to learn that!". When I try to copy, I disappoint myself and everyone listening. When I change it up, I have fun and so do they. I change key, change beat if it doesn't already have "swing", and sometimes wind up with a whole new song.

I'd rather hear Cheap Trick do "Don't Be Cruel" than Elvis, and I'd rather not hear myself pretending I can be either.
 

rocknhorse1

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Not trying to be Debbie Downer but, why so much time, money and expense to chase "Page tone"? Its already been done. I'm sure Jimmy Page could pick up any one of our guitars with any type of pickup and amp and he would sound like Jimmy Page. Unless you are paying your rent playing in a Zep tribute band, wouldn't it be more effective to chase your own tone, that fits your own style?

That dude in the video above, sounds real close to Jimmy Page's tone and his licks sound a lot like Jimmy Page's licks, but... its not going to fool anybody with their eyes closed. He's not Jimmy Page and will never sound exactly like him :cool:

Every person has their own style no matter how much they try to recreate someone else. Each of us humans are amazingly unique, like a snowflake. That's where the magic of your sound will come from. Just sayin'. :cool:

Not an invite to a flame war, just a simple observation from a crusty old picker. :D

The biggest thrill I get when doing a cover song at a gig, is not when someone says, "you nailed it, that sounded just like the record", but when someone comes up to you pumped up and says, "that sounded better than the original!". You have to own a song with your own style. That's when it becomes believable to the listener.

It kind of reminds me of Rich Little. One of the most amazing impressionists that ever lived. Impeccable talent and a joy to watch but at the same time I always felt a little sad for him because he never had his own identity. During interviews he could barely even speak in his own voice.

I guess the reason I ask this stems from last Saturday night. Last spring I switched from a band with two guitars to a new band with only me on guitar. (The singer sometimes strums acoustic when it fits and he knows the chords). This change added a lot of new pressure I never had in the last band. The guys in this band like to do "One Way Out" by ABB. I've always been able to pull it off in the past on occasion if it was a request. But this time I spent a week working on it every night at home. I thought it would be a cool gimmick to pull off both Dicky's and Duane's parts and try to sound like two different guitar players. I worked up Dicky's first solo, then worked up all of Duane's slide licks on the rest.

Every time we play it now, I get angry and frustrated because I am playing the parts but hearing the original live version in my head and noticing every note and nuance that I play that is not exactly like what is playing in my head. By the end of the song I feel frustrated and disappointed. (Not that anyone in the audience really knows the difference for the most part).

Last Saturday night, I thought we had made it through the whole night without doing that song. Right near the end of the last set, the guys wanted to do it. It was a great night and the band was really tight and I was feeling loose and fluid. As soon as we kicked it off, I just thought to myself, "f*ck it, I'm going to play this one the way I want it". I just turned off the original version in my head and just jammed the crap out of it with my slide. At the end of the song, the guys in the band were floored. They said that was the best we "ever" sounded doing that song. I quit trying to sound like the record and made it my own. Then I was happy as a clam afterward.

(I think I had too much coffee today. :cool: I'll shut up now...)

I bow to the greatness of this post! :bowdown
 

chrisuk

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Zhangbucker are great. The neck is very good. You may also want to have a look at Bare knuckle . Riff raff in bridge, mule in neck. Black dog in bridge has a slightly thicker sound, but bizzarly riff raff sounds more like pages trebley tone. But, the 490 /magnet swap is a good benchmark. Try it first ?

Tim is one winder that has actually had Page's no. 1 guitar in the workshop. I believe he recommends this mixed set (mule and riff raff) for a more Led Zep Page like tone not the black dog.
 

battweek

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I think its all to do with the hair. The floppier the hair, the better the tone.
 

WolfeMacleod

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I can't say anything about anyone else's Page tone.
The only comment that I can give is is that I currently doing a sort of "consulting" for Trib Band No Quarter's guitar player on Page's Live tone, and the "Classic Albums Live" band that recreates Zeppelin Albums note for note, tone for tone, live on stage....not a "tribute" band.
Their main player, Dom Polito, uses the MH/DrV combo in his LP.
We saw them a few weks ago and it was really, really impressive. Close your eyes, and you'd swear you were listening to the album itself. That particular night, his backline amp was a Fender Bassman R.I
 

Luckynumber3

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Zhangbucker are great. The neck is very good. You may also want to have a look at Bare knuckle . Riff raff in bridge, mule in neck. Black dog in bridge has a slightly thicker sound, but bizzarly riff raff sounds more like pages trebley tone. But, the 490 /magnet swap is a good benchmark. Try it first ?
That was the sound I was kinda looking for- trebly bridge and twangy middle.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, but you should reference live recordings of Page if you are trying to get his tone.

...
Best wishes to you on finding what you are looking for!
Indeed, as Page was a studio master.:thumb:

And thanks. :D

Mine are the pure hand wounds, and they are really nice. I haven't tried any of the regular winds, so I don't know what the sonic difference is.

I have the Seymour Duncans JP Custom Shop Wound by MJ in one of my Historics.
I installed a RS Guitarworks JPP wiring kit with Luxe Bees as well.

At the beginning I didn't like them so much. I usually use PAF style Throbaks (nearly all of them) and I couldn't find the clarity and harmonic richness in the Duncans. But it was mainly due to my amps settings. After one day of tweaking my amps and effects, I was able to nail Page tones pretty well.

I think that they are really nice for Page tones but they didn't represent the end of my quest. I'd like to try the VL 59 JP from Stephen Designs too.
I was going to say "what, no clarity from throbaks?," as thjey seem to be brighter and clearer than most pickups. I came super close to buying some, but then I realised that they cost wayy too much for something I may not be 100% sure on.

And that is the problem- after a certain point, I think that many pickups start to overlap in tone differences. I mean this by theres a bunch of different humbuckers, but after a certain point, if you have a "low output paf" you probably are only going to get the small details that are different between pickups, but probably the same general sound.

Id try those vintage lab or other brands if they didn't have a waitlist- If both of my pickups were stock Gibsons, maybe id consider it, but at the moment, looking at something cheaper and without a wait time might be best for me to help me find what tone I am looking for (althought I doubt I will change the pickups out once I install them, unless they are absolutely terrible).

I've used some of the 'Page' type pickup sets available by boutique winders, or their recommendations from their products when they don't have a dedicated 'Page' set.In each case it was a hot bridge pickup in the high 8K range or over 9K. No slagging intent here, as they sounded very good, but not quite what I expected.

When we say 'Page tone' I think we're most commonly referring to the live SRTS or Earls Court era tone.That unmistakeable middle position 'quack' that is Jimmy's main tone.Used far more than the straight bridge pickup still to this day.

So this being the case I've yet to see a boutique Page set that approximates the actual pickups in his #1 guitar of that era, known to be the neck PAF and replacement T Top bridge.That's certainly not a hot bridge pickup being mid 7K as they were.There's plenty of 'quack' to the EDS1275 during the Stairway solo, also T-Tops.

I've had much better results in achieving similar tone from lower wind (under 8K) PAF, T-Top type, or actual T-Top bridge pickups.More definition, clarity, 'clank and twang' than any of the hot wound types I've used.Which leads me to think most Page type pickups are modelled after the later era guitar, perhaps even after Jimmy went with Seymour Duncan pickups.It makes sense that the Custom Shop JP would also copy what's in the guitar presently, and not as it was in say 1973, and that resulted in the Custom Pagebuckers.

Just my thoughts on the topic.
Cheers
Daz
I was just thinking that the other day- once like seymour duncan and others are probably modeled more on what his guitar actually has now, and not what he really used in the 70s.

Imo, the Presence or TSRTS tones are the tones I'd be looking at.

Big difference, in tone and cost
Figured the cost, but wasn't surte if it was hype or there really was a difference. Do you have any experience with the zhangbuckers?

I have said it before and i will say it again, Page is one of those players that if you do not have the feel in the heart of what you are doing you will not nail his tone. Yes you may sound like him but you just will be lacking. This is MHO on this matter.

Thats why I'm looking in the ballpark of his tone- I play lots of other stuff besides Zeppelin, those are just the tones that I had in my head or a general example of what I want my guitar to sound like.

I guess it is kinda like going to some ultimate guitar store that has everything from gibsons to boutique guitars and saying "I want singlecut with humbuckers" and the guy assumes that you want a 1959 les paul sunburst. Maybe that guy wants them, but maybe he is just looking in the area, not that he has to have a gibson les paul specifically.

I am pretty certain that he used a Tele on the Stairway solo.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the live tone, as page used that doubleneck then. I think he used the 12 string neck right before the solo on stairway too, but it could be something else.

Most of ZepII was done on a Tele from what I gather.
Yes.

Bingo bango on the Telecaster comments above me.

Page claims to have used a Tele for the entirety of Zep I and most of Zep II and claims that the Stairway solo was done with the Tele through the infamous Supro combo.

Blasphemy, i know, but Teles are more versatile than most think.

My LP sounds like a tele with the bridge tapped.:thumb: Using that as a guide, I will say that teles are versatile guitars.:D

Not trying to be Debbie Downer but, why so much time, money and expense to chase "Page tone"? Its already been done. I'm sure Jimmy Page could pick up any one of our guitars with any type of pickup and amp and he would sound like Jimmy Page. Unless you are paying your rent playing in a Zep tribute band, wouldn't it be more effective to chase your own tone, that fits your own style?

That dude in the video above, sounds real close to Jimmy Page's tone and his licks sound a lot like Jimmy Page's licks, but... its not going to fool anybody with their eyes closed. He's not Jimmy Page and will never sound exactly like him :cool:

Every person has their own style no matter how much they try to recreate someone else. Each of us humans are amazingly unique, like a snowflake. That's where the magic of your sound will come from. Just sayin'. :cool:

Not an invite to a flame war, just a simple observation from a crusty old picker. :D

The biggest thrill I get when doing a cover song at a gig, is not when someone says, "you nailed it, that sounded just like the record", but when someone comes up to you pumped up and says, "that sounded better than the original!". You have to own a song with your own style. That's when it becomes believable to the listener.

It kind of reminds me of Rich Little. One of the most amazing impressionists that ever lived. Impeccable talent and a joy to watch but at the same time I always felt a little sad for him because he never had his own identity. During interviews he could barely even speak in his own voice.

I guess the reason I ask this stems from last Saturday night. Last spring I switched from a band with two guitars to a new band with only me on guitar. (The singer sometimes strums acoustic when it fits and he knows the chords). This change added a lot of new pressure I never had in the last band. The guys in this band like to do "One Way Out" by ABB. I've always been able to pull it off in the past on occasion if it was a request. But this time I spent a week working on it every night at home. I thought it would be a cool gimmick to pull off both Dicky's and Duane's parts and try to sound like two different guitar players. I worked up Dicky's first solo, then worked up all of Duane's slide licks on the rest.

Every time we play it now, I get angry and frustrated because I am playing the parts but hearing the original live version in my head and noticing every note and nuance that I play that is not exactly like what is playing in my head. By the end of the song I feel frustrated and disappointed. (Not that anyone in the audience really knows the difference for the most part).

Last Saturday night, I thought we had made it through the whole night without doing that song. Right near the end of the last set, the guys wanted to do it. It was a great night and the band was really tight and I was feeling loose and fluid. As soon as we kicked it off, I just thought to myself, "f*ck it, I'm going to play this one the way I want it". I just turned off the original version in my head and just jammed the crap out of it with my slide. At the end of the song, the guys in the band were floored. They said that was the best we "ever" sounded doing that song. I quit trying to sound like the record and made it my own. Then I was happy as a clam afterward.

(I think I had too much coffee today. :cool: I'll shut up now...)
Maybe you did have too much coffee, cause' that's a long post! Like I said earlie ron this post, im looking in the general direction, and don't really care about 100% nailing any specific sound. My current pickups (neck pickup at least) suck, so they are getting replaced with something, and I was looking in to the page tone as just a general tone. I want to be me, not Jimmy, but maybe stealing some of his vibe is what im looking for.:thumb:

I think Dazza was referring to the live performances.
+1

Thanks for the back-up mate.I thought I was pretty clear in saying I feel it's the live tone we refer to as the 'Page' tone.There's just too many varied recorded tones to choose from to put under 1 title.Though in truth no matter what he plays it's unmistakably Jimmy,the one and only.
+1

:applause:
Great post. And that's the answer to the question "why not just do it your own way?". I go through an abbreviated version of the very same process every time I hear something, old or new, and say to myself "I'm going to learn that!". When I try to copy, I disappoint myself and everyone listening. When I change it up, I have fun and so do they. I change key, change beat if it doesn't already have "swing", and sometimes wind up with a whole new song.

I'd rather hear Cheap Trick do "Don't Be Cruel" than Elvis, and I'd rather not hear myself pretending I can be either.
Like I said above, im not trying to sound exactly like Jimmy, just maybe take some of his vibe.:thumb:

Tim is one winder that has actually had Page's no. 1 guitar in the workshop. I believe he recommends this mixed set (mule and riff raff) for a more Led Zep Page like tone not the black dog.
Heard that in another thread, maybe the one I linked in the first post. Definitely is a convincing argument for BKs.

A tele and my fingers and you too, can have Page sound...I shit you not.
Where can I buy these "tone fingers?":thumb:

Pages tone is Pages tone. Why not go all the way and make tone your own.

Ha that is my poetry for the day.
I'm not going to repeat wehat I just said above, bu it applies here too. Good poetry though.:thumb:

I think its all to do with the hair. The floppier the hair, the better the tone.

Kinda like the magic tone pickguard, right?:D

Damn! I'm bald. Not only do I have no hair, I got no tone....

If you have ever seen peter frampton now, you know that he lost his hair but still has tone.:dude:

I can't say anything about anyone else's Page tone.

The only comment that I can give is is that I currently doing a sort of "consulting" for Trib Band No Quarter's guitar player on Page's Live tone, and the "Classic Albums Live" band that recreates Zeppelin Albums note for note, tone for tone, live on stage....not a "tribute" band.
Their main player, Dom Polito, uses the MH/DrV combo in his LP.
We saw them a few weks ago and it was really, really impressive. Close your eyes, and you'd swear you were listening to the album itself. That particular night, his backline amp was a Fender Bassman R.I

Cool, I will look into them!

On that note, I think I have found what I am going to buy, but im not saying anything until the pickups have been shipped, installed, and toyed around with for awhile. Until then, I may continue to annoy more winders on my tonequest (already bugged a few.:D).
 

Alekseriator

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On that note, I think I have found what I am going to buy, but im not saying anything until the pickups have been shipped, installed, and toyed around with for awhile. Until then, I may continue to annoy more winders on my tonequest (already bugged a few.:D).

what have you decided on getting??? :hmm:
 

DADGAD

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TSRTS tone = PAF neck/T-top bridge.
Page used the mid-position a lot to beef up the sound of the bridge pickup too.

I just happen to have this set up. Page Custom Authentic, 59 PAF in the neck, Pat sticker T-top in the bridge, '05 Plexi handwired with a Marshall 1960AX (Green back cab). I can even say I have a Pre Dunlop Herco Flex 75 pick, Pagey's fave. Guess what. I don't sound like him. I can honestly say that even this combo will get you in the ballpark somewhat but there are too many variables (like his pick attack and constant upstroking of notes) to even his live tone. When I listen to some of the Zep bootlegs, his tone varies a bit from show to show, but still sounds like him. I say just enjoy the ride and play what you have.
It is fun to chase his tone. I am guilty of that. As mentioned earlier, Page's knowledge and producing ability let him get studio sounds that we probably can't get in a home setting.

C5AE5652-orig.jpg
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guitarcase

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Going back over previouse ground here, but Tim (bareknuckles) uses and recommends riff raff bridge and mule neck for a page tone. Not his black dog! which gives a more rounded tone. How honest is that! Being he has had a very good listen to pages guitar you might want to mail him. He's not about selling, he,s hands on about finding the best pups for the tone you want. ..For the exact tone, I recommend putting on a cd and playing air guitar. Oh no, are we now going to get......What cd player gives Pages best tone ? :laugh2:
 

AngryHatter

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My LP sounds like a tele with the bridge tapped.:thumb: Using that as a guide, I will say that teles are versatile guitars.:D...


Where can I buy these "tone fingers?":thumb:...

I have tapped the pickups in my SG, no, they don't sound like teles, not even close. Had you said nasal humbuckers, I'd be inclined to agree.

Buy fingers? You are born with them. If your father's name is Page, you have Page fingers, hence Page tone.
 

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