Page & His Middle Position Tone

[Classicplayer]

I've always admired that screechy middle switch position tone that Jimmy got during the reign
Of Led Zeppelin. Here is an example:

At 1:50 into this the middle position is in use. Granted, the bridge pup is a T-Top, but there
is more to it than that. To get this tone is the bridge pup volume usually way up and the neck volume just high enough to mix the neck pup into the mix? I've tried a number settings using my
Les Paul with Seths, but cannot seem to get close. I know that Page's amp settings played a big
part. It seems the tone is almost devoid of mids. I see that the player reaches for the bridge volume control just around 1:55. Was he raising or lowering his T-Top's volume?


Classicplayer

 

[bulletproof]

Not sure,but,IMHO he needs to cut down on some of that treble

Good playing though....

 

[cooljuk]

I just hear clipping and noise in that video. I went to YouTube and tried to bump the quality, but it's maxed at 480p and just a bad recording to begin with.

Duncan Seth Lovers have nearly nothing in common with the pickups that Page's #1 LP has, post-1972. There's a good amount of amp/rig/technique in Page's sounds from any recording but if your first piece of electronics in the signal chain is lacking frequency content, no amp or technique can ever put that back into the signal downstream. You'll never get a Seth Lover to sound like a T-Top, nor even Page's neck PAF, as they are far too different sounding.

 

[Zoobiedood]

Yeah, the Seths have some nice mids, which I don't hear here. The Whole Lotta Humbuckers are closer, but the tone in the video sounds more scooped than a typical Page tone.

 

[Classicplayer]

I was under the impression that I could cop a middle position Page-like tone by varying the two pickups' volume controls......namely, the bridge volume much higher than the neck and lots of highs on the amp.
Rather than buy newer pickups, I think I'll experiment with the guitar and my current Seth pair.

Classicplayer

 

[ARandall]

Middle position is based on the two pickups in question. And you cannot assume that every pickup set will have a great middle as its just not true. You can tweak the pickups and the volumes all you like. If your pickups just don't have it in that guitar, then 'thats all folks'.

 

[Classicplayer]

Middle position is based on the two pickups in question. And you cannot assume that every pickup set will have a great middle as its just not true. You can tweak the pickups and the volumes all you like. If your pickups just don't have it in that guitar, then 'thats all folks'.

Reasonable as this explanation is; and true that most pickup sets will not get exactly the same middle position tone just like what we all have heard from Page's guitar and hands, it can be done to imitate that tone. I did it last evening after twiddling the volume and the tone controls for my Seth-loaded Classic. When I looked down at the numbers on my controls, they were around 4 to 5 for the neck Seth and the bridge around 7 to 8. The tones were wide open @10. No, it wasn't Page's tone, but it had the scratchy, thin, bright tone which was what Jimmy's guitar was getting. This was in connection with a VOX model on my amp. If I can produce that, I guess I won't be so hot to get a hand-wound T-Top. I had been making inquiries about them for almost two years, but never was able to convince myself that I really needed one. The Seth have a higher resonant peak, making them quite bright in their own right. Although they are unpotted and A2 magnets, they seem to get me in the middle position tone that I like

Now, the other middle position tone "quest" I'm interested in is that coming from Mike Bloomfield's Lester and Fender Twin amp......but that is for another day; another thread.

Classicplayer

 

[audiocheck]

Wasn't Page's Middle position like Peter Green's and out of phase?

 

[cooljuk]

No. If you hear sharp resonant peaks and a hollowness in his sound, that's attributed to other things like his guitar, strings, style, rig and the mixing of two very different sounding pickups with different wire, coil patterns, magnets and steel parts in his post-1972 sounds. Page's #1 LP has a very particular sound with a very distinctive midrange profile but the pickups are in phase.

 

[zoork_1]

Really nice playin'..., just calm down a bit...
Here's the ting, gear can take one a long step but frasing and timing does the job.
Keep the good work going.

 

[BurstingOut]

Calm down? Did Jimmy Page calm down?
This video was frickin excellent ..I havent heard a more spot on representation
of TSRTS tone than this. Rock on...

 

[J-Dizzle]

From what I've read, both here and elsewhere (there's a ton of threads on this subject) that middle position Page 'honk' is achieved with an A4 magnet in the neck pup and a short A5 in the bridge pup.

I had some PAF copies made with that configuration of mags and bang... there it was. Pagey middle position honk.