P90s - Any real downside?

[hbucker]

I've really been digging a set of P90 (humbucker sized) that I put in one of my guitars. It is the first set I've ever used.

I'm a humbucker guy who has really never bonded with Fender style single coils. But the P90s seem to have that fat humbucker tone while maintaining the clarity and bite that I like when I hear others play Fender style singles.

Other than the fact that they aren't hum canceling, what are the drawbacks, if any, to P90s?

Your opinions please.

 

[Frogfur]

Nope. That hum thing disapears the minute you get with it. It didn't bother Jimi or Terry Kath too much.
I am referring to soap bars rather than the newer full size pups. But a single coil is a single coil from a player stand point. Allot of other variables are going to effect your final results.

 

[Biddlin]

I have used P90s since I started playing 50+ years ago.
in the late 70's-early 80s, I was in a group with a guitarist playing a HB equipped ES 335. He was always a little vexed that I didn't have to turn up as much to be heard through the mix because of the beefy sound of my ES 225 TD.

 

[freebyrd 69]

I liked the way they sounded, but, the fact that they aren't hum cancelling was a deal breaker for me. Just couldn't deal with it in a live setting. Most clubs we play have a relatively small stage, and the hum sucked.

 

[Frogfur]

I liked the way they sounded, but, the fact that they aren't hum cancelling was a deal breaker for me. Just couldn't deal with it in a live setting. Most clubs we play have a relatively small stage, and the hum sucked.

I can understand that.

 

[SWeAT hOg]

I have never heard the hum once the band kicks in. For RAWK, they are easily interchangeable with humbuckers.

 

[SGeoff]

I have never heard the hum once the band kicks in. For RAWK, they are easily interchangeable with humbuckers.

this is true. plus, you get in the habit of rolling your volume knob to zero right after the last note or chord of the song, and the hum is not a problem

 

[Biddlin]

you get in the habit of rolling your volume knob to zero right after the last note or chord of the song, and the hum is not a problem

A volume pedal helps too.

 

[ReWind James]

The originals are all time bombs.

Because of the brittle weak plastic used for the bobbins, and the way the assembly puts uneven pressure on the bobbin in something of a U shape to hold the magnets in place, eventually, every one of those bobbins will crack and break and the coils then die. Maybe tomorrow, maybe another 60 years, but for almost certain it will happen.

 

[Dolebludger]

You are spot on -- the only disadvantage is the buzz (which is also called "hum" but it is really louder). But how much of a problem that is depends on what you play and how you play it. On cleaner amp settings, it isn't a problem at all. But if you use extremely high gain, the buzz can be so bad that even a good noise gate won't help. I used to play at very high gain, and had to convert my P 90 guitar to noise canceling P 90s. I don't find that they harm the "classic P 90 tone" at all. However, I play pretty clean these days so I probably wouldn't need those anymore.

 

[irocdave12]

As a p90 rookie myself I've heard of hum cancelling when in the middle position on a SG or LP. Were they always capable of that or is that more of a modern improvement where people figured out to start winding one of the pups in reverse? Also isn't a purpose built hum cancelling p90 a entirely different animal from a real p90 and will never sound like the real thing?

 

[Dolebludger]

YesYes, there are more modern improvement. SD, for one, makes buzz canceling P 90s that incorporate a "dummy coil" on the bottom of the pup. That's what I installed. To do so on some guitars, the bottom of the pup cavity may need to be routed a little deeper. These are as quiet as buckers. I personally do not find any degradation in tone compared with regular P 90s.

 

[ReWind James]

As a p90 rookie myself I've heard of hum cancelling when in the middle position on a SG or LP. Were they always capable of that or is that more of a modern improvement where people figured out to start winding one of the pups in reverse? Also isn't a purpose built hum cancelling p90 a entirely different animal from a real p90 and will never sound like the real thing?

This was not done on original Gibson or Fender guitars.

Both systems can incorporate hum canceling when two single coil pickups are played at once by using RWRP built pickups.

On the original instruments, there were no "bridge" "middle" or "neck" pickups, though. Just pickups. They were all built the same (with extremely rare/unusual exceptions, like narrow spaced Byrdland neck PAFs).

Some say a hum canceling middle position is an improvement, others disagree. Not that RWRP harms the sound, like a humbucker or "noise-cancelling single coil" (which is just a humbucker with a fancy marketing name) does, but because some players don't want some positions to have hum while other positions do not, as they move the switch around while playing.

 

[mdubya]

I like the hum. Let's me know I am playing single coils.

I like the full "oomph" of humbuckers sometimes, but about 90% of the time P-90's are more than adequate. Clean tones are next to unbeatable. Classic rock rhythm tones usually sound better with P-90's, and they sound beyond great with fuzz. I think they can be a little bit thin at low volume crunch tones, but that is on a case by case basis.

 

[NotScott]

I have been gigging an R5 with 1952 P90s for over 5 years now and have yet to find a place that made the guitar too noisy to use. If you have gigged old Strats, you already know how to minimize single-coil noise. I think P90s are great!

 

[Dolebludger]

My 2009 Epi LP 56 GT P90 buzzed just as bad with both pups "on" as it did with just one pup. There is a claim (don't know if it is true) that if you take one P 90 and turn it 180 degrees in remount, that having both pups on will stop the buzz -- but only with both pups on. I like to play this P 90 guitar with the bridge pup only, so this wouldn't have done me any good -- even if it worked on my guitar. Thus the SD buzz canceller I had installed.
With the new SD pups, the buzz is gone and the P 90 tone is retained.

 

[ReWind James]

My 2009 Epi LP 56 GT P90 buzzed just as bad with both pups "on" as it did with just one pup. There is a claim (don't know if it is true) that if you take one P 90 and turn it 180 degrees in remount, that having both pups on will stop the buzz -- but only with both pups on. I like to play this P 90 guitar with the bridge pup only, so this wouldn't have done me any good -- even if it worked on my guitar. Thus the SD buzz canceller I had installed.
With the new SD pups, the buzz is gone and the P 90 tone is retained.

That won't work.

Here's how you make a two P-90 coil guitar hum canceling when both pickups are on. Do both of these to either (but ONLY ONE) pickup:

1) At the pickup side of the hookup lead, swap the coil start and coil finish by swapping the small (usually black) jumper leads between the coil and the hookup lead, moving the one going to ground to hot and the one going to hot to ground, being sure only the new ground is also connected to the baseplate.

2) On the same pickup, flip both magnets of the same pickup over, so that the surfaces that were contacting the keeper bar in the center are now both facing outwards and contacting nothing.


Now one pickup will be electrically out of phase and magnetically opposite polarity of the other. Both pickups will sound exactly the same, when played alone. The middle position will now be hum cancelling. If this doesn't work, you didn't do it right. There's no other tricks.


Note - original Gibson P-90s usually have the magnets with North facing outside, South facing inside and the coils wound counter-clockwise from the top with the start hooked to ground and finish hooked to hot. This is not a 100% rule, I have seen vintage P-90s with the opposite magnetic polarity. None of this really matters for preforming the above, as long as both pickups start out the same and only one gets modified exactly as described.

 

[Dolebludger]

cooljuk,

Thanks for the correction and expert explanation. I'm not well versed in these matters, and was just repeating what I had been (erroneously) told. If I'm not wrong (again) this will cancel the buzz only when both pups are in play. A question I have is will it work if you turn the volume on one pup WAY down so as to get almost 100% of the tine from the other pup?

 

[ReWind James]

cooljuk,

Thanks for the correction and expert explanation. I'm not well versed in these matters, and was just repeating what I had been (erroneously) told. If I'm not wrong (again) this will cancel the buzz only when both pups are in play. A question I have is will it work if you turn the volume on one pup WAY down so as to get almost 100% of the tine from the other pup?

Happy to help when I can!

As you roll the volume down on one coil, you create greater and greater coil offset, between the two out of phase coils, and the humbucking effect is also reduced accordingly until it goes completely away when one pickup's volume is essentially "off" at zero and that out of phase coil is no longer present in the circuit to provide phase related hum canceling.

 

[Dolebludger]

cool junk,
So if I want only my bridge pup to be in nearly full operation, and my neck pickup to be virtually silent on my P 90 guitar (such as for something like a “woman tone”), is there any way to get rid of the buzz other than getting buzz canceling pups?