Out of phase pickups. What have you done?

Roger66

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I discovered out of phase when I put 2 quarter pounders on my walnut Strat. I wired it like a Mustang, not using 3 pickups, only 2. Well I got one out of phase accidentally and it really had an attitude in the middle position. I heard a rumour that Jimmy Page uses out of phase pickups with a pull pot. Actually 4 pull pots. One can buy the wired set online. Jimmy had one pull pot for each pickup to split the humbuckers into single coils. Another to put the pickups out of phase, and the last one to switch from the pickups being in parallel to being in series.
I tried the out of phase and series/parallel pull pot mods and could finally get some of the elusive tones he gets. I thought it was the amps he used, but it was mostly just out of phase pickup tone.
I never did the split coil sound, cuz if I want a single coil sound, I will use a single coil guitar. The series/parallel increased the volume a bit, and did have a special sound but nothing too special, IMO.
Brian May's Red Special is wired in series, BTW.
But out of phase really did it for me. So far I have put out of phase pull pots in a LPSupreme, a 76 SG, a Ricky 620, a danelectro 12, A tele and a jazz bass. My strats have 3 pickup switches for out of phase/off/on.
I dont regret ANY of it! I really use those out of phase tones. Its like having a different guitar entirely. From Zep to Zappa, they really come in handy. Best mods I ever did.
I would really like to hear what anyone else has done with pickup phasing and wiring and how it turned out.
It really gives you more honk and bounce and sounds fantastic with a wah. The notes seem to have more definition and less mud.
If you haven't tried it yet, do yourself a favor and try it.
No new holes, the guitar is exactly the same if ypu dont use the pull pots.
So, What have you done with your wiring? I'd love to know.
 

LCPG282

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Jimmy Page 50's wiring on my #1 Les Paul. 21 different pickup combinations :yesway:

 
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Brek

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I did a magnet flip on one of mine, was interesting, got some of those sounds, but in the end swapped back to stock.
 

Roger66

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That is Awesome! What kind of pull pots are those? I hate the CTS ones.
What do those big resistors do? I dont have any big resistors like that in any of my axes. They aren't on the schematic. I've seen those before in Gibsons but haven't a clue why you would need 1W resistors if at all. Please tell me.
 

Roger66

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What do those big resistors do? I dont have any big resistors like that in any of my axes. They aren't on the schematic. I've seen those before in Gibsons but haven't a clue why you would need 1W resistors if at all. Please tell me.
Really! Wow. How did you get all those wires soldered to those tiny grommets that go to the switches? How did you cram all those wires in? Did you do that?? Good job!!
 

Roger66

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Sorry... they are Push-Pull CTS pots and IMHO they are quality pots. YMMV.
Yeah, they are good if you dont bend the lugs. And the switches are hard to solder to. I like the old-timey ones.
But it is doable. Just difficult.
 

Thundermtn

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When I found my R8 I knew if I didn't spruce up my Classic a little it might not get much use. I watched a whole bunch of PAF reviews and ended up with a set of p/ups custom ordered for a Page harness. This is the plate that came out of the Classic. 325k's sucked, so did the long replaced 496r and the 500t, good riddance.



Had a little delay getting my neck pickup through customs, and another delay later when I found out the new bridge was two wire, when I ordered a four wire.

Had my local tech put it in and had weird problems on and off for a couple years. Turns out when I sent the bridge p/up back the guy didn't convert it correctly and it would intermittently go quiet for no reason known to me. My tech finally disassembled the pickup and found a sloppy joint from the 2 to 4 wire conversion the winder did.

Despite the gremlin chasing I'll never be without a Page harness Les Paul again. I'm a huge fan of the OOP sound and if I'm playing middle position in phase, I prefer the neck to be split. So much versatility and it did what I needed it too, made the guitar fun enough that it stayed in heavy rotation. Somedays I prefer it to my R8, hotter and more wild sounding with loads of tone coloring options.

Here are the guts now, 920D Page harness with 500k Bourns pots.

 

strayedstrater

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What do those big resistors do? I dont have any big resistors like that in any of my axes. They aren't on the schematic. I've seen those before in Gibsons but haven't a clue why you would need 1W resistors if at all. Please tell me.
Those are paper in oil capacitors, not resistors.
 

Roger66

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Those are paper in oil capacitors, not resistors.
Of course they are. I was confused when I read the resistor color codes, You know, "Black Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly" I like the "tropical fish" caps or those old cheap ceramic caps. I use silver micas in my hifi's and amps sometimes even in a guitar or bass. I have always been a Fender guy and have not used those before. I'm gonna have to look up the capacitor color code. I definitely have some homework to do. I must apologise for my ignorance. I'm on heavy pk's from a shattered femur, and a bit off ATM. Wow. That explains why my Fisher mono block doesn't work. I must have used a resistor instead of a capacitor when I rebuilt it. I assume that because the paper/oil caps are the way to go 'cuz they're in your #1. I have 1 LP, A 2011 supreme. I only put the out of phase pull pot in it 'cuz there is no access plate on the back. I wish there was. I had to work through the jack, pickup and switch holes! Like building a ship in a bottle. I have 1 '76 SG as well. I put the series/parallel and the out of phase pull pots in that. The pickups didn't have coil split wires so I didn't do them.
Hey, Thank you for your time and for pointing out that paper/oil cap thing. I need to get a proper LP now so I can do what you did to your #1.
I have 3 strats, 2 teles, a j-bass and a 66 fender 12 that already has a stock out of phase option. 2 strats, 1 tele, the j-bass now have OOP. So do my Rick 620, and my Dani 12. I want to put Brian May wiring (all series) in one strat, but instead of 6 switches, I can use 3 on/on dpdt switches for in/out of phase and use 3 pull pots that short out each pickup to bypass each one. Wish me luck. Thanks for listening.
 

Roger66

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When I found my R8 I knew if I didn't spruce up my Classic a little it might not get much use. I watched a whole bunch of PAF reviews and ended up with a set of p/ups custom ordered for a Page harness. This is the plate that came out of the Classic. 325k's sucked, so did the long replaced 496r and the 500t, good riddance.



Had a little delay getting my neck pickup through customs, and another delay later when I found out the new bridge was two wire, when I ordered a four wire.

Had my local tech put it in and had weird problems on and off for a couple years. Turns out when I sent the bridge p/up back the guy didn't convert it correctly and it would intermittently go quiet for no reason known to me. My tech finally disassembled the pickup and found a sloppy joint from the 2 to 4 wire conversion the winder did.

Despite the gremlin chasing I'll never be without a Page harness Les Paul again. I'm a huge fan of the OOP sound and if I'm playing middle position in phase, I prefer the neck to be split. So much versatility and it did what I needed it too, made the guitar fun enough that it stayed in heavy rotation. Somedays I prefer it to my R8, hotter and more wild sounding with loads of tone coloring options.

Here are the guts now, 920D Page harness with 500k Bourns pots.

Very very Good! I never ordered one, but used the OOP in a 2011 LP Supreme, but just that cuz there's no back access plate. I had to work through the jack plate, pickup and switch holes.
I put OOP and series/parallel on my 76 SG which didnt have split coils. So I need to get another LP to do the complete Page wiring thing. I OOP'ed 2 strats, a tele, (with just dpdt switches) a Rick 620, a j-bass and a Dani 12. My fender 12 already has it stock. No Regrets at all. I'm also gonna do a strat with Brian May wiring. Soon!
Thanks for sharing. I bet you have a great time with the Page LP. And I am gonna use the Bourns pots instead of the CTS ones I have been using. I think they hate me. Have you tried the old gain trick where you open the pot, and scrape the carbon off of where the wiper is at full volume. That makes you ground none of the signal, which is louder than grounding through 500k of resistance at full volume. I use 1 meg pots in my fenders, scraped. I also put a pull pot as the volume on a champ, disconnecting all volume and tone 'inhibitors' and put 2 more 12AX7's for 4 more 100% gain stages. I can use 12AU7's which gives 40% or 12AT7's which gives 70% more gain. Or a combination of any. I forget which ones I have in there now, but that little Champ is the loudest 6 watts I have ever heard. It Screams! If I pushed 7 watts, the cathode in the 6L6 would probably melt.
Anyway. Thank you for sharing your mods, and I will use the Bourns pots from now on. Cheers!
 

LCPG282

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Really! Wow. How did you get all those wires soldered to those tiny grommets that go to the switches? How did you cram all those wires in? Did you do that?? Good job!!
Yes this is entierely my work! Most of the soldering can be done before putting the pots in the cavity, and the rest is tricky but can be done with a lot of patience and focus on what you're doing. These big CTS pots don't make it easy but I like their feeling when turning the knobs. I had done another Jimmy Page wiring on another Les Paul with Alpha Push-Push pots but I find them somehow looser when rotating and less sturdy than the CTS pots. Still the soldering was easier with the smaller Alpha pots, more room around them.
 

LCPG282

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What do those big resistors do? I dont have any big resistors like that in any of my axes. They aren't on the schematic. I've seen those before in Gibsons but haven't a clue why you would need 1W resistors if at all. Please tell me.
Indeed they are capacitors, not resistors.
On my #1 they are Luxe PIO Bumblebee, capacitors set 1956-1960 "Woman Tone", 0.015uf 400 VDC for the neck and 0.022uf 400 VDC for the bridge.
On my other LP they are Russian K40Y-9 & K40P-2 military PIO capacitors, also 0.015uf 400 VDC for the neck and 0.022uf 400 VDC for the bridge.
 

LCPG282

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For anyone interested here is, step by step, the Jimmy Page 50's wiring schematics I've used:













 

EpiLP1985

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A few notes from my vault:

1.) Ive tried the JP wiring a few times and was not a big fan. Firstly, I’m not a huge fan of coil split humbuckers. So that’s two useless switches for me. Secondly, humbuckers in series, even when they are both split, was not all that interesting. So that basically leaves one useful switch, which is OOP. BUT...

2.) I’m one of those crazy people who has tried it both ways and prefers the magnet flip. Could be totally in my head.

3.) A tone I thought was fantastic and actually gives better middle position JP tones was wiring the bridge pickup with a series/parallel switch and wiring the neck pickup with a phase switch. With both engaged you get a big, fat, honking middle position sound.
 

LCPG282

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2.) I’m one of those crazy people who has tried it both ways and prefers the magnet flip. Could be totally in my head.

3.) A tone I thought was fantastic and actually gives better middle position JP tones was wiring the bridge pickup with a series/parallel switch and wiring the neck pickup with a phase switch. With both engaged you get a big, fat, honking middle position sound.
2) I have a Corsa mod Les Paul Standard Faded LCPG (# 282 you guessed it) with the neck PU magnet flipped and 2 Les Pauls with the JP wiring and I personally can't hear a difference between OOP with magnet flip or with JP wiring. YMMV.

3) It's the sound I get with JP wiring when both tone pots are in high position. OOP + Series.
I remember reading that Albert King enjoyed this fat honking sound and had his mid position wired OOP + Series on his Flying V.

Pickup combination 15.jpg
 

EpiLP1985

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2) I have a Corsa mod Les Paul Standard Faded LCPG (# 282 you guessed it) with the neck PU magnet flipped and 2 Les Pauls with the JP wiring and I personally can't hear a difference between OOP with magnet flip or with JP wiring. YMMV.

3) It's the sound I get with JP wiring when both tone pots are in high position. OOP + Series.
I remember reading that Albert King enjoyed this fat honking sound and had his mid position wired OOP + Series on his Flying V.

View attachment 538201
The difference in my experience was that the Bridge in Parallel is actual a useful single coil sound. Series humbuckers is only good when combined with something else.

This is all preference of course. I just found there were too many useless tones out of the 21 so I never wired any guitar that way again.
 

Roger66

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A few notes from my vault:

1.) Ive tried the JP wiring a few times and was not a big fan. Firstly, I’m not a huge fan of coil split humbuckers. So that’s two useless switches for me. Secondly, humbuckers in series, even when they are both split, was not all that interesting. So that basically leaves one useful switch, which is OOP. BUT...

2.) I’m one of those crazy people who has tried it both ways and prefers the magnet flip. Could be totally in my head.

3.) A tone I thought was fantastic and actually gives better middle position JP tones was wiring the bridge pickup with a series/parallel switch and wiring the neck pickup with a phase switch. With both engaged you get a big, fat, honking middle position sound.
Wow! You are REALLY NICE for the step by step instructions on the JP wiring. YOU ARE THE MAN!
I, too had that experience that out of phase, in series, was one of the best tones. I, too aren't that interested in the coil split very much. That is what a Fender is for. It sure is worth the time and experience, though. OOP on a tele sounds fantastic. Even the OOP jazz bass got a very zeppelinesque tone. Again, THANK YOU! Roger.
 

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