Old Wood

[FLICKOFLASH]

 

[filtersweep]

No doubt old growth is a thing. What isn’t so clear is what this all actually has to do with tone.

 

[Freddy G]

No doubt old growth is a thing. What isn’t so clear is what this all actually has to do with tone.

Strength to weight ratio.

 

[filtersweep]

Strength to weight ratio.

And that impacts tone how?

 

[Freddy G]

And that impacts tone how?

Depends on the application. HUUUUUGE in acoustic guitars.

But even in an electric neck for instance, a stiffer neck has a different quality for sure. Tighter sounding, the sustain energy is not frittered away as quickly....

 

[pshupe]

The picture above seems correct for the difference between commercially farmed wood and "old growth". I would say there is little difference between pieces of lumber that were cut 100 yrs ago and now, if it is not commercially farmed and the growing conditions where essentially the same. Trees that grow in a forest or in a more norther climate have shorter growing periods and may struggle for light creating a tighter grain. Rapidly Renewable wood sources for construction purposes - like Spruce - Pine - Fir are planted a certain distance apart in open fields and grow extremely fast. I think it is a <10 to 15 year growth cycle to qualify as RR, which is good to use for construction.

I bet you could fine wood that looked exactly like the 1918 picture if it were grown in a dense forest and had a shorter growing season. But you wouldn't find 2"x4"s in home depot with that tight grain.

Regards Peter.

 

[Freddy G]

The picture above seems correct for the difference between commercially farmed wood and "old growth". I would say there is little difference between pieces of lumber that were cut 100 yrs ago and now, if it is not commercially farmed and the growing conditions where essentially the same. Trees that grow in a forest or in a more norther climate have shorter growing periods and may struggle for light creating a tighter grain. Rapidly Renewable wood sources for construction purposes - like Spruce - Pine - Fir are planted a certain distance apart in open fields and grow extremely fast. I think it is a <10 to 15 year growth cycle to qualify as RR, which is good to use for construction.

I bet you could fine wood that looked exactly like the 1918 picture if it were grown in a dense forest and had a shorter growing season. But you wouldn't find 2"x4"s in home depot with that tight grain.

Regards Peter.

I agree with that Peter. But aside from the slow growth=greater density issue....you can also take into consideration the aging/seasoning effect on the cellular structure of wood that has been sitting for a long time.

 

[ARandall]

This is one of those 'lies, damn lies and statistics scenarios as has been said. Comparing framing pine to furniture or luthier wood is hardly an illustrative example.

 

[Freddy G]

This is one of those 'lies, damn lies and statistics scenarios as has been said. Comparing framing pine to furniture or luthier wood is hardly an illustrative example.

haha...true that. Those two pieces don't even look like the same species. The bottom one (1918) looks like Douglas Fir.

 

[Freddy G]

My workbench is made from old, reclaimed Douglas Fir. My dad was doing a reno project on an old church built in the late 1700s. He took out a pile of Douglas Fir. He said it was like working with hardwood and I agree. I've had the bench for 30 years now and it takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!

 

[ARandall]

This is certainly not the forum to be making this sort of post in....it will get picked to pieces.

 

[PierM]

The science of the internet failed again.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

one piece quatersawn pine from a old factory beam

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

From a barn beam of 120 year old barn in Honduras. Quartersawn tight grain Honduras mahogany

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

Thank you for not posting this on a Friday night.

I'd love me a 120 year old Mahogany slab with 2 P-90's!

 

[the great waldo]

I agree with that Peter. But aside from the slow growth=greater density issue....you can also take into consideration the aging/seasoning effect on the cellular structure of wood that has been sitting for a long time.

Hi
I don't always go by the tightness of growth ring spacing. I had an experience where I bought some alpine spruce from a cheese making bucket maker. The wood was really tight grained quater sawn and looked perfect. Unfortunately when I had cut it down to acoustic guitar top thickness it was like rubber when I checked it for stiffness. I've still got some of it which I bought about 20 years ago. I made a couple of guitars with some of it but they sounded s**t . The guy who made the buckets made them from only wood with a walnut strap around pegged with a wooden pin. He had lost the fingers on one hand from a crosscut saw accident but managed to split the wood he used perfectly to shape with a curved blade mounted on a wooden handle. The blade was so sharp you could shave with it. He told me some of the tools he used were over 150 years old. Unfortunately new European rules forbid wooden cheese making buckets using stainless steel and plastic instead . Progress I suppose !!!
Cheers
Andrew

 

[fatdaddypreacher]

not being educated in this field, or any other for that matter, one of the differences between slow growth and fast growth relating to tone could be, in fast growth lumber---regardless of species, the wood between growth rings is quite soft compared to the growth ring themselves. the higher ratio of soft wood to hard wood should have quite an affect on it's ability to transmit vibration. a piece of fast growth will not ring as much as a piece of slow growth, all things being as equal as can for comparison purposes. i'm going back to sleep now

 

[w666]

Bob Benidetto once made a guitar from scrap wood just to debunk some tonewood myths:

https://benedettoguitars.com/2011/09/16/flashback-friday-knot-so-bad/

Similarly, Bob Taylor ran a small lot of guitars made from old pallets and 2 x 4s

http://www.cupboardsonline.com/2011/04/taylor-pallet-guitar-real-use-for.html

How the wood sounds is way more important than than other factors, IMHO

 

[B. Howard]

You are also comparing spruce to fir in that pic as well, so........

 

[jktxs]

Stradivarius trees: Searching for perfect musical wood

Just any tree will not do when combing a forest in Switzerland for the perfect musical wood - its age, the weather and even the position of the moon help to craft the warmest, fullest notes.

Pellegrini is a tree picker. He will find you the spruce in 10,000 that is just right. He will find you the "Stradivarius tree".

"Lentement, lentement, lentement," he says. "Slowly, slowly, slowly".

That's how violin trees should grow.

Because, apparently, the gravitational pull of the moon does not only tug the waters of the sea and make the tides, it tugs up the sap.

...


Violinists can’t tell the difference between Stradivarius violins and new ones