NP(ickup)D: Wolfetone Dr. Vintage

[David Garner]

I've been playing around with the pickup height, and I have them higher now, more to vintage spec (1/16 for both sides, bridge and neck). Turns out my "perfect" was true for the bridge, based on the 57 Classics I had in it before, but the neck was also "perfect" in the same sense -- it sounded like the 57 Classics. I'll explain below, because it's hard to describe the tone in terms that make sense. I was pretty much setting them the way I thought they were supposed to sound, based on what I had, instead of setting them how I thought they sounded best. I've now remedied that.

At around 1/8", the pickups sound a WHOLE lot like the 57 Classics, only with more overtones and clarity. Basic tone is very similar, though, but better to my ears, and also fuller. The reason I started playing with the height is they also have the one attendant problem the 57 Classics had, which is the neck was a little muddy when the guitar volume came down. I raised the pole pieces on the neck a half turn and that helped a lot, then I began playing with height. I started by lowering a half turn, but the more I messed with it, the more I found I liked it higher. By the time I was done setting the neck and balancing out the bridge, I found both were really close to 4/64 -- Gibson's original 1/16 setting. Maybe a hair lower, but not all the way to 5/64 at any point.

The tone, as I said, is hard to describe (other than words like "awesome," "incredible," "dynamic," etc.). On the bridge, if you want a pretty solid replica of what they sound like into a Rat>Marshall 18 Watt setup, listen to the intro to "Mr. High and Mighty" by Gov't Mule. Because they nail that tone. For the neck, they do a very good "Still Got the Blues" tone, which isn't exactly vintage, but it's the best reference I can give. Take the Rat away and you have "Blue Sky." The middle position is where they really shine, especially into a Deluxe Reverb. Great, bluesy, full, round, clear -- any great blues tone you've ever heard with humbuckers is right there.

They still have that basic vintage tonality, but they have more punch, and are more articulate and clear. String to string balance is much better with less muddy overlap and more solidity to the tone. But not in a bad way at all -- they sound very vintage and old school. Setting them high doesn't make them sound modern at all. It just sort of sounds like a vintage pickup is supposed to. With a Strat, you typically want to lower pickups to brighten them, and that's true of these too, but as noted I was getting some mud on the neck. Set higher, what you pick up in clarity and string-to-string definition almost makes them seem brighter, but at the same time fuller and ballsier. But still really, really vintage and old school. The best part is rolling down the guitar volume now cleans everything up perfectly with a little loss of bite (no way around this), but no muddiness at all. The only problem I've encountered is I have to back off the neck tone when using them with my AC30 because it will peel paint. Bridge tone stays between 5-7 simply because I set up my gear to sound good on the neck and roll back the bridge to compensate. With the 18 Watt or Deluxe Reverb the neck tone stays on 10 because they're darker amps.

I really like them this way. I meant to ask Wolfe when we spoke yesterday if it's true that he recommends them lower, at 1/8", which is what I read somewhere (but not from him). I have to say, I think in my guitar, they're near perfect at the old 50s specs of 1/16. We'll see how long this setting lasts. The pickups are going nowhere, I assure you of that.

 

[Pop1655]

That's a great read!
Thanks
I'll interject my own highly technical expertise on the subject:
I have six guitars. When I plug in the one with Dr V's, I go WOW.

 

[Classicplayer]

Your last, David, indeed! Informative!

I had Seths installed in my Classic last year. I feel the same way as you; "they won't be going anywhere." The neck, by comparison with your Wolfetones, measures on the neck 7.2K and bridge at 8.2K. The bridge is set slightly lower than 1/8" on high e-string side and slightly over 1/8" on the 6th. string side. The neck is more or less even with the pickup ring. I found out the same as you did, that the the neck bass side has to be raised for a full sound. There is not much room for error in tweaking; just a slight turn with a screwdriver means the difference between the dreaded dull/mud tone and a full sound with some "chime" when new strings are on it. My main amp now is an Orange and it offers mucho brightness but in the context of a full sound. Consequently, I dial the neck Seth to the Orange and the bridge Seth (with its' volume and tone backed down) usually is just where I think it should be. All of this with only one pedal; a TC Electronic Hall Of Fame reverb to assist tone.

I found your descriptions and methods above would tend to help anyone who may yearn to try "vintage" sounding pickups, but are skeptical to try them.


Classicplayer

 

[David Garner]

Thanks guys. I just A/B'd it against my PRS DGT, which is widely reputed to have great pickups and great tone. The DGT sounds thin by comparison on the bridge (but much hotter -- it's wound to something like 9 or 9.5K and it sounds like it, in a good way), and muddy by comparison on the neck. So I certainly think I'm on to something.

To be fair, the DGT has less mass and a trem, so it's going to have a different tone from a Les Paul. But the difference is starker than it was before I installed these.

 

[David Garner]

Thanks guys. I just A/B'd it against my PRS DGT, which is widely reputed to have great pickups and great tone. The DGT sounds thin by comparison on the bridge (but much hotter -- it's wound to something like 9 or 9.5K and it sounds like it, in a good way), and muddy by comparison on the neck.

So of course I went full blown OCD and adjusted the pickups on the DGT, too

They were a little lower than factory settings, but I actually went up a half turn on the bridge pickup and down a half turn on the neck, but up a half turn on the neck's pole pieces. Now it matches the Les Paul/Wolfetones for punch and thickness, but the bridge is pretty significantly hotter, and the neck is marginally hotter. So I have a nice one-two punch with the more vintage Les Paul tones and the heavier, hotter DGT.

Here's how OCD -- I made notes of the changes and put them in the guitar case so I could return it to stock. That's the only mod this particular guitar has ever had.

 

[WolfeMacleod]

I meant to ask Wolfe when we spoke yesterday if it's true that he recommends them lower, at 1/8", which is what I read somewhere (but not from him). I have to say, I think in my guitar, they're near perfect at the old 50s specs of 1/16. We'll see how long this setting lasts. The pickups are going nowhere, I assure you of that.

Yes, I like them at about 1/8th. or very close to it.
I also suggest GHS Boomers. For some reason, my pickups prefer those over just about everything else. Especially D'Addario. It's got to be something in the alloy that D'Addario uses. Worst sounding strings I've ever used.

 

[David Garner]

Yes, I like them at about 1/8th. or very close to it.
I also suggest GHS Boomers. For some reason, my pickups prefer those over just about everything else. Especially D'Addario. It's got to be something in the alloy that D'Addario uses. Worst sounding strings I've ever used.

I'll try them again at 1/8 or so. I only use GHS Boomers because the aforementioned PRS's trem prefers them for some odd reason. My tech, who is extremely good, said he was baffled trying to get that guitar to stay in tune but the Boomers for some reason stayed in tune.

He figures it has something do do with the winding on the ball end, but it was easier for me to use them on all my guitars since that one is picky about strings anyway.

Out of curiosity, how do you usually suggest setting the pole pieces (high or low, radiuses, etc.). I haven't found a bad setting on these yet, but I'm still playing around for the sweet spot. I'm usually like that with new pickups. I obsess for a few weeks until I find out where I want them. Then I never touch them again.

 

[WolfeMacleod]

Out of curiosity, how do you usually suggest setting the pole pieces (high or low, radiuses, etc.).

I tend not to obsess over pole settings I set them flat along the top of the pickup, with a small amount of the head just above the top.
Otherwise, I'd go crazy with obsessing.

 

[David Garner]

I tend not to obsess over pole settings I set them flat along the top of the pickup, with a small amount of the head just above the top.
Otherwise, I'd go crazy with obsessing.

You have no idea how much I resemble that remark. I put them back to 1/8 and you're right -- they get a nice sparkle there. The neck pickup problem is still there but I think I've figured out why. I think I don't like my pots very much, and I think I just noticed that when I installed your pickups (when something is so good it reveals a weakness in your signal chain, that's impressive). These are standard spec CTS 500K pots, so I'm guessing the tolerances aren't as good as some of the better pots and the sweep is just wonky. It basically goes from "singing sustain" on 10, to "less sustain but still a lot of dirt" on 9 to "blanket over the tone, no bite, plastic sounding tone" on 8, to "dead clean with nice sparkle" on 7. So it's something about the sweep between 7 and 9 that is just killing the tone. I couldn't figure out why the sweet spot wasn't there anymore. My guess is the 57 Classics just weren't articulate and complex enough for me to notice -- that neck pickup was fine, but it was always a little muddy, so I didn't have the clarity on 7 or 10 to compare it to -- it sounded the same all the way down the sweep.

So apparently, only when it's on 8, the neck sounds plastic and fake, but on 7 or below, it sounds normal, and above 8, it sounds better the closer you get to 9 or 10, with 9 being just about perfect and 10 giving a little more cut and bite for solos. The problem is, that's right where I used to get that nice "clean with hair on it" tone. So I'm changing the volume pots to RS Superpots to see if that helps. I'm hoping the better taper will give me a smoother transition from full on gain to clean with hair to clean without that odd "muddy and fake" setting in between.

Interestingly, it does it on the bridge too, but it's not as noticeable, probably because of the frequencies involved. I only noticed it when I thought the pots might be an issue. Switched to the bridge, rolled down to 8, and there it was. Not nearly as noticeable, but it was definitely there. The bass loses any definition and the treble sounds muted. When I get the new pots in, I'll measure the old ones through the sweep and report back.

 

[WolfeMacleod]

You have no idea how much I resemble that remark. I put them back to 1/8 and you're right -- they get a nice sparkle there. The neck pickup problem is still there but I think I've figured out why. I think I don't like my pots very much....etc...

I have no idea what pots are in the Heatley LP style guitar I have, but I love the sweep that they give. No sudden jumps, very smooth all the way through. I'll see if I can find out.

 

[David Garner]

I have no idea what pots are in the Heatley LP style guitar I have, but I love the sweep that they give. No sudden jumps, very smooth all the way through. I'll see if I can find out.

Thanks! I managed to EQ my 18 Watt so it sounds fine now, but I'm looking forward to trying the Super Pots. I've been using that Marshall so long I never touch the tone knob (it has a weird 5-way tone switch that I just backed up one notch, which helped a lot with the neck muddiness). They sound fantastic now, but I still don't like the sweep of these pots so I'm join to give the RS units a try. I got the idea to mess with the EQ when I realized they are not only not muddy, but actually too bright, through my Deluxe Reverb (man, they sound incredible through that amp, by the way). Which is odd because usually the Marshall is darker. I had it EQ'd to thicken up the 57 Classics and didn't even think to change it when I changed pickups. It treat it as basically a "set it and forget it" amp. I literally don't have to touch a knob to set the amp up, and I just tweak tone and volume from the guitar.

The bridge was super bright when I first turned the tone knob back, but dropping the bridge tone between 5-7 or so thickened it right back up (it was around 7-8 before, sometimes on 10 depending). I'm still amazed by how great these sound. They're just fantastic pickups.

 

[David Garner]

Okay, apologies in advance for the stream of consciousness here -- I continue to post my thoughts mostly in the hopes that my experience will help others trying to decide what pickups to buy. I noticed something last night while messing around with these. I was (somewhat unconsciously) trying to set them up more like the 57 Classics, as I said before. That apparently has persisted, despite my best efforts to let my ears be my guide. My initial thought was the Wolfetones were somewhat hotter, but I put them back down to 1/8 and tweaked from there, thinking Wolfe probably knows a thing or two about his own pickups. Then I got my DGT back out and started comparing notes.

And it was then that I realized how low wind these pickups really are. Not only are they not hotter than the 57 Classics, they're a good bit less hot. They don't get "vintage tone" in the sense that they will conjure up 70s rock tones from your old setup that worked with 57 Classics or Duncan 59s or whatever. They get TRULY "vintage tone," in that they will nail all the great 60s blues tones you have ever heard. AND they do a great job of getting those 70s rock tones, but not with the same setup you are used to using to get them. Set higher, they do get those tones, but with probably more midrange than you're used to (which I think is why I had issues with the neck pickup all along). And I had already noticed that they sounded better with the Deluxe Reverb than the Marshall, especially on the neck pickup. So it was at this point, when I was starting to get frustrated with my Rat clone and my SD-1 and my tubescreamer that I decided to turn the amp up and go straight in (as I prefer to do with the Marshall, and as I had been doing with the Deluxe).

And it was at that point the heavens opened. The entire tone got thicker, and bigger, and fuller, and more complex. But it did NOT get compressed and start to sound like an 80s metal band. Instead, it just had this gigantic, wonderful complex tone that works for exactly those 70s rock tones we were just talking about. Turn down and things are still nice and fat, but also clear and articulate and clean with a touch of sparkle to the tone. I'm going to get an OCD or Timmy or something similar to get those tones at lower volume, because my tinnitus is acting up right now .

The point is, as great as these are set however you like, they LOVE to be set lower and run straight into a cooking amp. Then, the volumes and tones work together swimmingly and the tone is much thicker than at lower volumes with a pedal (probably in part because I have the wrong pedals).

I'll update again once the RS kit is installed. I'm going to re-wire the guitar while I'm at it, and I'll take new DC resistance measurements while the pickups are out just for documentation. The neck right now is set at a little higher than 1/8" for both sides, and the bridge is set a little lower. They sound best there, even though the bridge is a touch less hot and less loud at that level. I'm not worried about equalizing volume -- they're close enough that nobody but me will notice. In fact, I only noticed when I went from the neck to the middle and the tone cleaned up.

 

[Classicplayer]

David G,

Very interesting and informative findings. I did about the same as you did after lots of screwdriver turns; and a pair of Seths in my Classic and into an Orange Micro Dark. As you decided, I also left out any pedals, except a reverb; so almost straight in with the amp turned up a bit louder than I normally set it. I have no plans to re-wire or search for another pickup set. The Wolfetones that you have would have been a viable option for me, though.

Classicplayer

 

[David Garner]

Superpots were a huge improvement. No mud anywhere and the sweep is more usable. They even work with my normal setup, so huge improvement to my ears. I left the tone pots in for now - I plan to re-wire the switch and jack when my wire comes in so I'll change them then.

Pickups at room temp are nearly dead on specs.

Neck:



Bridge:

 

[David Garner]

This will be my 2nd to last post -- I will post one more after I re-wire the guitar shortly. I think I have the pickups set about where they should be now. The neck has the pole pieces about even with the cover, the bridge about a quarter to a half turn below (it sounds smoother that way to my ears -- they get too strident and mid-heavy set higher). The neck is at 1/8 on both sides, and the bridge is at 1/8 on the treble side and about 9/64 on the bass side -- again, it takes some of the mid-heaviness out this way. Set this way, they sound a whole lot like the 57 Classics, but again with much more in the way of complexity and overtones.

These are fantastic pickups. I am still getting used to the weaker bridge PU, but I prefer it having lived with it for a while.

 

[David Garner]

Last post -- I re-wired the guitar and I also replaced the bridge and tailpiece with Faber parts. Here is the re-wired pickup cavity, using all shielded braid wire (the heat shrink tubing is to prevent grounding issues with the hot wire). No change in tone with this but it did get a touch quieter.



The Faber bridge and tailpiece had more of an affect on the tone, and I have to say, they really brought out the best in these pickups. The string-to-string separation is improved, and the pickups are incredibly articulate, but without losing any of the overtones and sparkle that made me love them to begin with.

As I said in another thread, my take on these pickups is they will improve anyone's guitar who wants traditional, vintage tone, but they also will reveal warts in your setup. Since getting them, I've changed the pots and the bridge and tailpiece and each of those moves made a significant difference (improvement) in the tone, which was already really good to begin with. The Dr. Vintage will give you what the guitar is willing to give you, so a better fundamental tone will get you better tone coming through the speakers.

I'm super impressed with these. I highly recommend them to anyone looking for vintage Les Paul tones.

 

[Frank1985]

Got 'em!



They read a touch hot out of the box but I'm assuming that's because they had been out in the hot sun all day.





So bridge 8.46 k/ohm, neck 7.94 k/ohm. In the thread where Mr. Satchmo first got them, he indicated they were 8.05 and 7.7, respectively. I assume when they get acclimated to the house they'll drop, but I didn't want to wait around and see so I soldered them in.

First impressions are really good. First, despite the fact that they are unpotted, there was no problem sitting about 6 feet away from my 18 Watt, with the volume on 7, facing the amp. So they do not squeal. They DO have a great controlled feedback and a lot of harmonic complexity. They sound a whole lot like the 57 Classics, but the former are a bit smoother and more compressed, whereas the Dr. Vs are more open and have more midrange and balance. The 57s sound a little scooped by comparison.

It took a while to get the pickup heights right. They definitely have a smaller sweet spot than I expected. Within a couple of turns either way and they are either too polite and dull or too harsh and strident. But in the sweet spot, they are really good. Very much like the Bluesbreaker/Beano tones from Clapton. With an SD-1 pushing the Marshall, they get a nice even crunch tone. Into my Deluxe Reverb they are very sweet and complex, and have a lot of character to the tone without being piercing or harsh.

Great pickups. I think they might be keepers.

Still rocking these?

I installed some this week after they'd been sitting in a drawer for the past few years. They're very good. Still fine tuning the heights however. Just wondering what you and everyone else has theirs set to?