Nitro on Historics and Reissues

[db3266]

A comment to those who always find the necks sticky,.. it's more than likely your own sweat that's doing this (no offense intended). I've mat several players over the years who's sweat from their hands corrodes strings &/or leaves gunk behind that isn't easy to clean off.

I think I have to agree with this. I use Pure Nickel strings and they also go dirty very quickly.

 

[winexprt]

I would guess it's easier to apply... that's just a guess though. I think a nitro finish takes more time to apply and is a long iterative process...

There are many people who wouldn't be happy with a nitro finish as well (very sensitive, fades, cracks, chips and so on...) But man, on historics... I don't understand either.

I see. If you could speed up the application (and drying?) times you could pump more guitars out the door. That would make sense financially.

My 2011 Traditional Plus was a tiny bit sticky/tacky when I first got it, but that only lasted a couple of weeks. It's completely dry and not the least bit sticky now. I guess the fact that I had it outside of its case and on a stand for several months helped the drying process along.

 

[ReWind James]

Since it hasn't been addressed, what would be the point/benefit of adding "plasticizers" to the finish??

So they DON'T crack and check.

The percentage of the buying demographic that WANTS their guitars to do that is likely pretty minimal. There's just a much higher concentration of us here.

 

[ReWind James]

VOS models have 100% nitro with no added plasticizers just like origanal bursts

VOS and Gloss Gibsons from the Custom Shop have the same nitro sprayed on. VOS guitars just have some extra gunk (buffing compound) slathered on top of the finish.

Gibson's modern version of "nitro" just isn't the same nitro formula used in the glory days. That's why they don't check and crack.

 

[guitarnut_germany]

So they DON'T crack and check.

The percentage of the buying demographic that WANTS their guitars to do that is likely pretty minimal. There's just a much higher concentration of us here.

If I buy a historic, I would very much like it to crack and check , I would guess, that ***quite a few*** people buying **historics** (many of us are vintage nuts anyway) would like that as well. That's why I would only guess a proccess speed up behind this plastic stuff on the historics.

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

 

[Barker]

VOS and Gloss Gibsons from the Custom Shop have the same nitro sprayed on. VOS guitars just have some extra gunk (buffing compound) slathered on top of the finish.

Gibson's modern version of "nitro" just isn't the same nitro formula used in the glory days. That's why they don't check and crack.

I have no idea what is really in Gibson's nitro. I will say though that my 2011 R8's finish is rock hard, and it even has some fine check marks (finish cracks) on various parts of the body. I have done nothing to 'encourage' this, we have had some really large temperature, and humidty swings, and it did have a couple of cold nights in my car (oops), but that's it.

 

[guitarnut_germany]

People get makerovers because they want aged LPs and what they think is closer to the originals (whatever that means considering they were all over the place as well). Fading,checking all included. The people performing the work do it because they make a lot of money.

Murphys are aged but not refinished, it's not ONLY the ageing. It has to do with the finish material as well.

 

[Barker]

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

Mine has faded, and it's less than a year old. I did give it a little sun time, but only around 30 hours. The nitro has ambered as well.... .

 

[mfolet]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.

 

[mfolet]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.

 

[ReWind James]

Dig this video of the "nitro" coming off of an R9:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRvg7DrwIj4&hd=1]Historic Makeovers® Removing lacquer from Gibson R9 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ReWind James]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.

That's awesome. I'd love to think that my newer R9 will crack and check. My older Gibsons haven't, even after some "encouragement." I love that look. Got photos? Not because I doubt you, just because I'd love to see some sweet photos of a naturally checked recent Historic!

 

[KenG]

If I buy a historic, I would very much like it to crack and check , I would guess, that ***quite a few*** people buying **historics** (many of us are vintage nuts anyway) would like that as well. That's why I would only guess a proccess speed up behind this plastic stuff on the historics.

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

The fading is from the Dyes not the niro itself. I believe 58's & 59's suffered from this but 60's Dyes were changed to correct this. However, given enough UV exposure, we've seen some examples of newer models here on MLP that have faded.

 

[KenG]

They will indeed check and fade.My 2011 models have done so allready.

They shouldn't check unless eposed to temperature extremes. May have happended in shipping or may have happended under your watch.

 

[jhun1976]

In this case 100% nitro means no plasticizers or additives

Can you please post pictures of the checkings. I made a 2003 R7 check before using inverted dust cleaner but I read before that after 2005 they change the nitro formula with more plasticizer in it.

 

[mfolet]

The lines are so fine on my CR8 that I can't get it to show on a photo yet.This and my R0 are my gigging guitars.The CR8 is gloss and R0 is VOS. No stickyness on either.I will see them tommorrow night as i have a gig in the Finger Lakes and the temp should be in the low teens.So they will be nice and cold out of the trailer.

 

[Razz11]

all Nitro has plasticizers in it. Gibson has admitted as such on their own forums.
Most recently in mid 05 they changed their formula and added more to it to keep the finishes from fading and checking. Its very noticeable from an early 05 to a newer one. Both lacquers are still thin, but the newer one is softer and stickier. In time it would probably still harden though.

My guess is that when they introduced "faded" style finishes like Iced Tea and Lemon they opted for a more fade resistant nitro to keep those finishes from fading further since they were already mimicking a faded finish.

 

[nicolasrivera]

If I buy a historic, I would very much like it to crack and check , I would guess, that ***quite a few*** people buying **historics** (many of us are vintage nuts anyway) would like that as well. That's why I would only guess a proccess speed up behind this plastic stuff on the historics.

The finish used back in the 50's was a COMPLETELY different one. ON how many of your historics has the burst faded??! Even if the guitar is 20 years old, it doesn't fade. That's a different finish, call it whatever you like, it's not historicaly correct.

Cracks are a defect, plasticizers are added so the nitro can contract and expand when the wood does it, it is not for faster or better application at all.

Now, what everybody has a misconception of is the faq that todays nitro will crack just like you see vintage guitars today, granted not all of them crack either.

When i wanted mu historic to crack and it didn't i did it my self:

And then i have this, a Standard Les Paul with standard factory nitro from Gibson, she was played for over 10 years continuously in bars all over the south and look what that did for her, all natural:

So now, you can speculate all you want about finishes, but is a guitar with nitro get played well and gets exposed to continues hot/cold temperatures it will crack eventually being 100% pure nitro or with plasticizer's.

 

[ReWind James]

Non-lightfast aniline dye is what allows a finish to fade. Not the nitro/plasticizers. Just want to keep things straight.

 

[nicolasrivera]

Non-lightfast aniline dye is what allows a finish to fade. Not the nitro/plasticizers. Just want to keep things straight.

Exactly. Nitro only helps in the amber look when it ages.