Nitro and Humidity

greens

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I know humidity shouldn’t be over ~55% when spraying. Is that for the actual moment of spraying or for the whole procces?

In other words:

Let’s say humidity is 50% for 3 hours around noon. But is a lot higher in the morning and evening. Can i do three coats in one or two hours while the air is dry and then let it sit over night?

Never had to deal with this before because i had access to a proper facility. I don’t have that anymore...
I'd say that is a little conservative. I've never had a problem under 65% or so
 

greens

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That’s music to my ears!
Well, I don't want to lead you astray because I'm far from a pro. But I've done a handful of guitars. Would love to hear what other people think about it.
 

pshupe

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I've sprayed in 60 - 65% and had blush but the next day was not so humid and I sprayed another coat and it melted in and the air escaped, so it seemed to work out OK. I would have some retarder on hand if you were spraying in that humidity and try not to, if you can help it.

Cheers Peter.
 

emoney

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I didn't know there was any such thing as humidity under 90% actually. Down here in Florida, if we had to wait until it was in the 50% area we would never be able to spray.

Thin coats......thin. Skinny. Barely there.
 

vintageguitarz

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OK, I'm going to give you the perspective of a manufacturer. I worked for Fender for 27 Years from 1972 to 1999, now a Luthier who repairs, restores vintage instruments and builds maybe a dozen customs per year,

"Shooting" the body and neck is the most important phase in the physical construction of a fine instrument. If you're building just a "player", yeah who cares. If you are building an instrument you intend to be proud of, show off and enjoy looking at for as long as you play it, you painstakingly control the environment where you do your work. In a shop, a custom mfg facility and a factory you control the temperature and the humidity 24/7. If you want the finish to spider crack or worse in 4 to 10 years, then who cares. Shooting a guitar is not something you DON'T do in your yard or a dirty garage. 45 to 55% (worst case limit) Humidity while you shoot nitrocellulose and while it cures. Even using Poly and other finishes require a controlled CLEAN environment. Take pride in your work, do it right.

Fender Custom Shop - Corona.jpg
 

pshupe

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OK, I'm going to give you the perspective of a manufacturer. I worked for Fender for 27 Years from 1972 to 1999, now a Luthier who repairs, restores vintage instruments and builds maybe a dozen customs per year,

"Shooting" the body and neck is the most important phase in the physical construction of a fine instrument. If you're building just a "player", yeah who cares. If you are building an instrument you intend to be proud of, show off and enjoy looking at for as long as you play it, you painstakingly control the environment where you do your work. In a shop, a custom mfg facility and a factory you control the temperature and the humidity 24/7. If you want the finish to spider crack or worse in 4 to 10 years, then who cares. Shooting a guitar is not something you DON'T do in your yard or a dirty garage. 45 to 55% (worst case limit) Humidity while you shoot nitrocellulose and while it cures. Even using Poly and other finishes require a controlled CLEAN environment. Take pride in your work, do it right.
I would have to respectfully disagree that you need a controlled CLEAN environment. I do keep my shop climate controlled 24/7 but it is quite dusty and I do not have an air cleaner filter system. Nitro is very forgiving. I have only sprayed a handful of guitars but I have yet to get any contamination in the finish. Also I know more than a couple of people that spray at least 12 and as many as 30 guitars a year in the same manner without issue.

Before I spray I spend a bit of time blowing off the surfaces and vacuuming up as much as I can but it does not take me very long. The nitro I use dries almost instantly, or at least to the point where it wouldn't have something stick to it. I also do not put down any drop clothes. By the time the overspray hits a surface beyond the guitar it is pretty much dry and is just a dust / powder. I spray towards my table saw and work bench and have no issues.

Regards Peter.
 

Airplane

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I‘m done with the spraying Bd it worked pretty good. I bought a hygrometer just to be sure and the humidity turned out to be pretty low around noon. 40 to 50 max for a couple of hours. I left it outside for tonight with a cloth hanging loosely over it to catch some moisture in the early morning hours. A trick i learned for tanning skins in my taxidermy apprenticeship.

Dust and stuff was absolutely no problem at all, even tho i did it on my balcony.

Thanks for your help.

Have a look at my makeover thread if you’re interested how the guitar turns out:
 

lpfan1980

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I know humidity shouldn’t be over ~55% when spraying. Is that for the actual moment of spraying or for the whole procces?

In other words:

Let’s say humidity is 50% for 3 hours around noon. But is a lot higher in the morning and evening. Can i do three coats in one or two hours while the air is dry and then let it sit over night?

Never had to deal with this before because i had access to a proper facility. I don’t have that anymore...
Someone stick their lester in a sauna what will happen? :p
 

LtDave32

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I would have to respectfully disagree that you need a controlled CLEAN environment. I do keep my shop climate controlled 24/7 but it is quite dusty and I do not have an air cleaner filter system. Nitro is very forgiving. I have only sprayed a handful of guitars but I have yet to get any contamination in the finish. Also I know more than a couple of people that spray at least 12 and as many as 30 guitars a year in the same manner without issue.

Before I spray I spend a bit of time blowing off the surfaces and vacuuming up as much as I can but it does not take me very long. The nitro I use dries almost instantly, or at least to the point where it wouldn't have something stick to it. I also do not put down any drop clothes. By the time the overspray hits a surface beyond the guitar it is pretty much dry and is just a dust / powder. I spray towards my table saw and work bench and have no issues.

Regards Peter.
I never have a problem spraying in open shop.
 

Airplane

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Whatever that guitar in the original post is, it's absolutely stunning.
Yes indeed. I have no idea tho. It was attached by MLP when this thread was on the main page for a while (which was weird).
 

Adinol

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I know humidity shouldn’t be over ~55% when spraying. Is that for the actual moment of spraying or for the whole procces?

In other words:

Let’s say humidity is 50% for 3 hours around noon. But is a lot higher in the morning and evening. Can i do three coats in one or two hours while the air is dry and then let it sit over night?

Never had to deal with this before because i had access to a proper facility. I don’t have that anymore...
May I ask a delicate question?

Is there any connection between your opening post and a series YouTube videos that show a counterfeit burst being made?

The reason I ask is because the image of the guitar that you posted in your opening post is the exact same guitar as the counterfeit burst being made on the YouTube videos.

les-paul-nitro-humidity.jpg


Screen Shot 2020-01-20 at 10.04.04 AM.png


It is the exact same wood grain.

Again, I'm sorry I had to ask this delicate question, it's just that when I saw the image that you attached to your post I immediately recognized that it was the same guitar from the said video, that I recently watched.

Thanks...
 

Adinol

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When I initially read this thread I didn't realize there were already 2 pages. I posted my reply at the bottom of the 1st page and when it posted it on the 2nd page I noticed someone already asked about this guitar.

Whatever that guitar in the original post is, it's absolutely stunning.
So, I guess, the only answer is that the guitar is a counterfeit.
 

Airplane

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May I ask a delicate question?

Is there any connection between your opening post and a series YouTube videos that show a counterfeit burst being made?

The reason I ask is because the image of the guitar that you posted in your opening post is the exact same guitar as the counterfeit burst being made on the YouTube videos.

View attachment 434142

View attachment 434144

It is the exact same wood grain.

Again, I'm sorry I had to ask this delicate question, it's just that when I saw the image that you attached to your post I immediately recognized that it was the same guitar from the said video, that I recently watched.

Thanks...
Geez i wish this was my LP! I don’t even have one. This photo was added to this threads by the admins when it was added to the main page for whatever reason.
 

Adinol

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Yes, like I explained, when I initially read this thread I didn't realize there was a second page where this question was basically answered.

It is odd how the admins can just add a photo to your opening post and make it look like it was you that posted it. And of all choices it turns out to be a counterfeit (which I'm sure is just a coincidence).
 

pshupe

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Yes, like I explained, when I initially read this thread I didn't realize there was a second page where this question was basically answered.

It is odd how the admins can just add a photo to your opening post and make it look like it was you that posted it. And of all choices it turns out to be a counterfeit (which I'm sure is just a coincidence).

Do you have a link to that youtube vid?
 

Adinol

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Do you have a link to that youtube vid?
Of course, and I even reported it to Gibson as I think videos of that sort just teach people how to do counterfeits.

I just didn't post the link when I mentioned it because I wasn't sure if I'd be breaking any forum rules by linking to counterfeits, but clearly I am not trying to promote those videos.

Les Paul guitar nitro finish and relicing. PART 1

Les Paul guitar nitro finish and relicing. PART 2

Les Paul relicing. Part 3. Metal parts relicing.

Les Paul finish and relicing. Part 4

'59 Les Paul replica (8BombCustom)

etc, etc, etc...

We are not talking Chibsons here. Those are serious counterfeits that will pass more rigorous inspections. I think this shop is in Poland and clearly they are producing those guitars non stop and I'm sure they sell them as genuine.

I did let the folks at Gibson know about this, so let's see what happens.
 

SlingBlader

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Of course, and I even reported it to Gibson as I think videos of that sort just teach people how to do counterfeits.

I just didn't post the link when I mentioned it because I wasn't sure if I'd be breaking any forum rules by linking to counterfeits, but clearly I am not trying to promote those videos.

Les Paul guitar nitro finish and relicing. PART 1

Les Paul guitar nitro finish and relicing. PART 2

Les Paul relicing. Part 3. Metal parts relicing.

Les Paul finish and relicing. Part 4

'59 Les Paul replica (8BombCustom)

etc, etc, etc...

We are not talking Chibsons here. Those are serious counterfeits that will pass more rigorous inspections. I think this shop is in Poland and clearly they are producing those guitars non stop and I'm sure they sell them as genuine.

I did let the folks at Gibson know about this, so let's see what happens.
Well, to be fair, he does put his own logo in a pickup cavity... seems like he's selling them as repros, not to intentionally mislead. He does some pretty nice work.
 

Adinol

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Well, to be fair, he does put his own logo in a pickup cavity... seems like he's selling them as repros, not to intentionally mislead. He does some pretty nice work.
He does nice work, I admit. I did not see the part when he puts his logo in the cavity.

But he does put the Gibson logo on the headstock, he puts a Gibson type serial number and he stamps the back Made in USA, which is not the case.

I'm sure he started as an enthusiast and I'm sure one reason why he does this is because Gibson guitars are even less affordable and harder to come by in Europe. I totally understand how someone in Europe might never be able to afford a real Gibson. With a lot of the quality control issues that we all know Gibson was struggling with, he might even be making better guitars than average Les Pauls from certain periods.

Unfortunately he is in fact counterfeiting. The other problem is that he is basically putting instructions online and others will learn from it. He is not just showing the world how to make nice guitars, he is showing details that have to do with counterfeiting Gibson Les Paul guitars. He might be selling them to people with full disclosure, but those buyers might have intentions other than just keeping those guitars for themselves. And what happens when those customers get old, pass away and their heirs inherit a nice "burst" that is (at that time in the future) actually aged?

But I do acknowledge that he is talented and that he does very good work. Scary kind of good.
 




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