NGD! 2003 R9 Brazilian board

Tensjeek

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
5
I purchased my first R9 today, and I think I got a great one to start my historic collection. I was told by the shop I bought it from, that it was a hand selected top and fret board, by a Gibson Custom Shop dealer back in the day. Finish is somewhere between cherry sunburst and bourbon burst, but I'm not sure what they called it. Any additional information you guys can provide would be awesome!

Sure us a beauty
 

dubster82

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
131
Reaction score
97
Had I known the truth of the R9 before purchasing, I would have moved on from it and kept looking. Having it in hand now, and it being very unfortunate that it turned out the way it did, I still really love the guitar, and am happy with it, just not happy with the deal and the stress I've been through over it.
And that's why I think it'll sour on you and you may resent it. Then you might want to sell it, then you may only be able to get the cash you put forward back and forever be down the '51 and the traditional. If I were you, I'd reset on the deal and keep looking. Although this one is nice, there are plenty nice ones out there, and with what you've learned you should be able to get a really good deal that you don't end up regretting.
 

rickruz88

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
14
Reaction score
43
I might be wrong, but I think this guitar is going to sour on you. You're in the honeymoon period right now but I think you're going to regret keeping this in hindsight when it's too late.

It's a nice guitar but it's not what you originally wanted. "When saying I could get a much better instrument for $6-7k, keep in mind, I didn't have $6-7k in cash to spend." but you still spent it anyway. What people are telling you is for your 4G you could of had a very similar guitar to this AND still had your two other guitars.

You could of sold your traditional for more than trade in value, plus your cash and had a really nice reissue that was marketed correctly. You gave up your other guitars for something special. You really wanted a braz R9. Ask yourself, going back if that guitar was marketed as what it actually is, no braz, just another 2003 R9 and with what you know now, would you of made the same deal (minus 1k)? Would you of been interested? Would of you of even given it a second look?

Although it is a very nice guitar, do you think it's $3000 and a lovely looking '51 Epiphone worth of an upgrade over your traditional?

I agree with you wholeheartedly. He could return the guitar and possibly repurchase it at a lower price once they are forced to sell it again at an appropriate market price.

It is true that any item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. However, this logic applies only when both parties to a bargain are reasonably informed as to all material facts of the transaction. Here, whether the guitar had a Brazilian board was without question a material fact, which was latent (most people cannot reasonably tell whether a board is Brazilian or Indian, from visual inspection alone). The buyer detrimentally relied on the reputation and putative expertise of Emerald City in making his purchasing decision. The fact that they knew that there was a high probability that it actually did not have a Brazilian board and were advertising it as such is egregious.

It's not my money, but it is disappointing to me to see anyone who is ripped offer or otherwise taken advantage of by a person or establishment in a position of power as Emerald City was in this case.

I was seriously considering buying a six figure guitar from these crooks prior to this incident. I will never again consider doing business with them and view any claim made by them with large degree of incredulousness.
 
Last edited:

ErictheRed

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
6,554
Reaction score
8,489
OP has heard all of our opinions, and in the end he's got to make the choice on his own. So hearing my opinion, etc, is not all that relevant. Still, I think that EC had the upper hand here, they already had your guitars and money, they know that you really want that guitar. The $1,000 partial refund might not be a terrible deal, but really I think it should have been in the $1,500 range, if not $2,000. You could probably have bought that guitar for the $4,000 cash that you originally had, or possibly more with tax. Out the door that guitar shouldn't have been more than $4,500 max, I'd think.

EC already had your guitars and money. I would have undid the deal and started over from scratch, maybe after cooling off for a week. But that's me.

If you're happy with the deal, great, I think most people here just want you to not have regrets, and you may not have much time to renegotiate.
 

zdoggie

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
136
Reaction score
40
you have a beautiful guitar it kinda reminds me of ice tea burst but beside all of that it 's a beauty and deserves your tlc so enjoy it
zdog
 

xguitardevilx

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,376
Reaction score
213
What was the final price on the guitar?
He told me $1,800 for the Traditional and $1,200 for the Epiphone, plus $4,000 cash, so total would be $7,000 on the guitar. Tax rate in Seattle I believe is 10%, so it would have been $6,350ish + tax. I don't know how he worked it out in his books, but it was $7,000 in the end.
 

guitarbob123

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
3,830
Reaction score
1,293
This was advertised on their Instagram page, as well as multiple other platforms, with the item described as having ‘a wonderful Brazilian Rosewood fretboard.’

That description is provided with complete certainty by the seller. They were alerted before sale that this was a false statement and had plenty of chance to adjust their advertisements. They instead persevered to peddle what they knew to be false information in order to achieve financial gain. They used their position as ‘experts’ within the field to take advantage of someone with less experience and less access to knowledge than themselves with the sole intention of off-loading an item that they were aware could cause them issues, at profit.

As far as can be known, following all of this, they have now refused to make the buyer whole upon his request and offered a refund that does not result in the item being purchased for a fair market value.

I would never buy from Emerald City Guitars and I would warn anyone who intended to purchase from them of their behaviour.

EDIT: OP, the guitar itself is a really great example, and the 2003 run does have a great reputation. If you like the guitar and you feel right with the refund then don’t let the deal itself spoil your enjoyment!
 

none2low

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
667
Reaction score
707
To echo what other have said, IMO $4500 would be a fair dealer price for a 2003 R9 non-brazilian. While I don't agree with the misrepresentation that has taken place and feel that Emerald City is in the wrong, if the OP is happy with the deal than that is what matters.

I know we're all looking for deals when buying, but sometimes we all end up paying more when we find one we can't live without. Keep in mind that if you hold on to them long enough... eventually it all evens out.

And ya know, it may be personal bias, but I agree that 2003 R9's are great guitars!! I know I love mine and the OP seems to love his as well.
 

xguitardevilx

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,376
Reaction score
213
Emerald City Guitars just gave me a call, and they have agreed to give me the $1,000 partial refund and my Les Paul Traditional back. I think that's really great of them to try and make it right, and after I get the $1,000 and my guitar back, I'll be 100% happy about the deal.
 
Last edited:

ErictheRed

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
6,554
Reaction score
8,489
I still think, okay, let's call the sale price $4,500 (seems a tad high, but it's from a dealer, etc), + 10.1 % Seattle sales tax (ouch!) is under $5,000. If they gave $3,000 trade value on the guitars (which actually seems very good to me), the refund should have been $2,000.

Personally, I've never seen a dealer offer the price that they would sell a guitar for ($1,800 on the Traditional) in trade. Normally it would be about $1,000. So in that sense, maybe xguitardevilx got a decent deal. On the other hand, it does make me think that they were really trying hard to make the deal, and take advantage of the fact that a customer thought that he was purchasing something worth much more than it actually is.

OK I won't keep posting in this thread. Salespeople are often crappy to deal with; this whole thing smells a bit like used car salesman tactics, but maybe not. Hard to believe that a dealer would knowingly false advertise something like this, but I'm also surprised that they didn't offer more to redress the problem.
 

ErictheRed

V.I.P. Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
6,554
Reaction score
8,489
Emerald City Guitars just gave me a call, and they have agreed to give me to $1,000 partial refund and my Les Paul Traditional back. I think that's really great of them to try and make it right, and after I get the $1,000 and my guitar back, I'll be 100% happy about the deal.
Okay, there you go! That was while I was writing my other post. That's a good deal, good for you. And good on Emerald City for making it right.

So how much can I buy your Traditional for...?
 

none2low

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Messages
667
Reaction score
707
Emerald City Guitars just gave me a call, and they have agreed to give me to $1,000 partial refund and my Les Paul Traditional back. I think that's really great of them to try and make it right, and after I get the $1,000 and my guitar back, I'll be 100% happy about the deal.
This sounds like a reasonable resolution and puts it in line with being a fair deal. Congrats on the new R9!!
 

bosnialove

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
3,204
Reaction score
2,437
I call bullshit. Maybe it had something to do with me emailing them and telling them about this thread or someone else told them, but i dont believe they wouldve done the same thing without everybody here shitting on them. I think you are too naive.

Glad it worked out for you anyways. good luck, have a 2001 and 2003 Brazilian myself, and yes, Braz is way overrated.
 

xguitardevilx

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,376
Reaction score
213
Okay, there you go! That was while I was writing my other post. That's a good deal, good for you.

So how much can I buy your Traditional for...?
I will be keeping it, as it has sentimental value to me. It was the first Gibson I bought brand new off the wall in Guitar Center when I was 19, and I was really going to miss it, but was willing to give it up for what I thought was a Brazilian 2003 R9.
 

xguitardevilx

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,376
Reaction score
213
I call bullshit. Maybe I had something to do with me email them and telling them about this thread or someone else told them, but i dont believe they wouldve done the same thing without everybody here shitting on them. I think you are too naive.

Glad it worked out for you anyways.
Oh no, they specifically told me they were reaching out to me because they were sent this thread. I still think it's very nice of them to want to make it right.
 

rickruz88

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
14
Reaction score
43
I think we should be happy that at least our collective displeasure on this forum caused the dealer to move to revise their initial lowball offer to resolve this matter.

The offer seems fair and it seems they are willing to take it back at this point if you wanted.
 


Latest Threads



Top