New Les Paul Standard 50 vs Custom Shop

[rjwilson37]

I didn't feel my custom was any better than what I have right now with my Epiphone Signature guitars and my Gibson Les Paul's that are non-custom. My custom did have a deeper tone with a nice Growl, but it also had a Medium C neck like a 58 and it was over a 1lb heavier than my other Les Paul's, which could account for that. But from a feel/playability standpoint, it was not any better than my current guitars.

When you start stepping into Historics/Murphy Lab, then you start upping the game and getting something a bit more specific and special because you want that particular model. Some of those end up being extra special and really have a better feel/tone to them, and some do not. That is why you play a bunch of them at the Gibson Garage and see if one speaks out to you. The only problem, is that they cost an extra 4k-7k more and you really need to make that commitment. The Captain from Andertons with Pete spoke out about the difference between a regular historic 58/59 and a Murphy Lab. Petes Murphy Lab that spoke out to him was the most expensive guitar at Gibson when they were trying out all the guitars. He did end up fulfilling the itch and got that specific guitar, but it was only like 1-2% better, which cost Pete an extra 4k to get that particular guitar.

 

[ajwain]

We obviously have trodden similar boards and arrived at the same conclusion. I have to confess that I did end up with at least one(!!) CS instrument, but not because it was better than my others; just because I liked it equally. Like you, it took me absolutely years to find a CS guitar that even began to justify the price difference, but that just illustrates our point… not all CS instruments are equal, and absolutely and unequivocally not automatically better than their USA counterparts.

I think I tend to agree with you on the LP Custom offerings… I also think the Class 5 from the Custom Shop was a beautiful guitar. As for the lightweight debate and the ability of a guitar to “ring” … I have 40 years experience which says that although that particular characteristic is nice when strummed acoustically, it makes absolutely no audible difference at 110dB when you’re standing in front of a roaring cab!

We’re all free to like what we like, but let’s not pretend that anyone other than the player can tell the difference.

Let’s use our hard earned wisdom to advise people objectively and encourage them to form a personal opinion rather than piggybacking on others’ prescribed prejudice (which is largely based on price and elitism).

 

[gball]

We obviously have trodden similar boards and arrived at the same conclusion. I have to confess that I did end up with at least one(!!) CS instrument, but not because it was better than my others; just because I liked it equally. Like you, it took me absolutely years to find a CS guitar that even began to justify the price difference, but that just illustrates our point… not all CS instruments are equal, and absolutely and unequivocally not automatically better than their USA counterparts.

I think I tend to agree with you on the LP Custom offerings… I also think the Class 5 from the Custom Shop was a beautiful guitar. As for the lightweight debate and the ability of a guitar to “ring” … I have 40 years experience which says that although that particular characteristic is nice when strummed acoustically, it makes absolutely no audible difference at 110dB when you’re standing in front of a roaring cab!

We’re all free to like what we like, but let’s not pretend that anyone other than the player can tell the difference.

Let’s use our hard earned wisdom to advise people objectively and encourage them to form a personal opinion rather than piggybacking on others’ prescribed prejudice (which is largely based on price and elitism).

An excellent point about the weight. For those of us old enough to remember, there was a time that weight was considered a virtue and people actively sought out heavier guitars (I'm sure this sounds like insanity to those that were not there). I personally think, but cannot prove, its why so many LPCs were super-heavy in the Norlin era: you saved the heaviest hunks of wood for your flagship guitars. People tended to play much, much louder back then than they do these days and I found through my own experience that those super-heavy Les Pauls generally fed back less when you were diming a huge amp on a tiny stage. Nowadays even crappy clubs seem to have decent PA's so you can use a much smaller amp and keep the stage volume down. For the record though, I still think the heavy ones sound better.

 

[mjross]

Hey, play what you like, don’t worry about all the BS! If it works for you that’s all that counts.

 

[1allspub]

Old thread I know and I hope whatever the OP’s decision was back in 2020 he’s happy with it.

That said, I do have to agree that Gibson USA guitars can be every bit as good a playing and sounding guitar as a Custom Shop. Like @gball I personally have a 2016 Traditional that is an exceptional sounding and playing guitar and competes very well with my RIs. And that’s why I still have it.

BUUUT… I will say that I’ve owned several Gibson USA LPs (12) and this particular Trad is by far the *best* of all I’ve owned. The others just couldn’t compete with it and are now gone. In fact, until I got my first RI, I couldn’t find an LP that could compete with my Trad. But the RIs I’ve had (5), were all outstanding (still have 2 of them). 4 of the RIs were/are as good or better than the Trad and only one was not quite as good (but still very good).

So the takeaway (at least IME) is that while USA LPs *can* be as good (or even better) than a RI, that RIs are more consistently good and thus you are more likely to get an extra good one from the CS. But, of course, there’s no guarantees and every guitar is its own thing. You just gotta play them and decide for yourself. YMMV

 

[ajwain]

I largely agree with 1allspub, but better is very definitely subjective. I have 8 Les Pauls (I’m a bit of an obsessive, and I’ve been buying them for nearly 30 years), each one spoke to me such that each time I found one… when I played it, I couldn’t leave it behind. A couple of them took several visits to the store and a week or two passed before I was confident in my decision, but ultimately I knew I had to have them because of the way they felt or sounded. I’ve never sold a guitar… I’d have to be destitute to part with any one of them, but of the hundreds of Custom Shop Reissues I’ve found/played, I only ended up buying 3 of them. The rest, IMHO, didn’t justify the price.

I’ve tried to fall in love with Murphy Lab guitars because they look fantastic, but as yet, I haven’t found one that does it for me. I hate the argument that the finish somehow allows the guitar to breathe and resonate better. For me, even if it does, it makes absolutely no difference to the sound, and just makes the instrument feel ‘odd’ as if the lacquer is about to flake off in my hands. I’ll keep playing as many as I can just to be sure I’m not missing something.

I love looks and vibe and attention to detail, and they all contribute to what makes a guitar special to me; but it’s soooo much more than that, and in my opinion, USA production guitars have just as much chance of being a “keeper”.

 

[InTheEvening]

I largely agree with 1allspub, but better is very definitely subjective. I have 8 Les Pauls (I’m a bit of an obsessive, and I’ve been buying them for nearly 30 years), each one spoke to me such that each time I found one… when I played it, I couldn’t leave it behind. A couple of them took several visits to the store and a week or two passed before I was confident in my decision, but ultimately I knew I had to have them because of the way they felt or sounded. I’ve never sold a guitar… I’d have to be destitute to part with any one of them, but of the hundreds of Custom Shop Reissues I’ve found/played, I only ended up buying 3 of them. The rest, IMHO, didn’t justify the price.

I’ve tried to fall in love with Murphy Lab guitars because they look fantastic, but as yet, I haven’t found one that does it for me. I hate the argument that the finish somehow allows the guitar to breathe and resonate better. For me, even if it does, it makes absolutely no difference to the sound, and just makes the instrument feel ‘odd’ as if the lacquer is about to flake off in my hands. I’ll keep playing as many as I can just to be sure I’m not missing something.

I love looks and vibe and attention to detail, and they all contribute to what makes a guitar special to me; but it’s soooo much more than that, and in my opinion, USA production guitars have just as much chance of being a “keeper”.

Agreed. I’ve prob tried 5-7 Custom Shop LPs now and none of them felt that much different from my USA standards that I could justify that cost. I even AB’d my standard 60’s in the store with a G0 reissue for a few hours when deciding between the two and other than the lighter weight and me liking the custombuckers a bit more, couldn’t tell much of a difference. I actually preferred the look and top in my standard 60’s and ultimately brought it home and left the custom shop. But I’ve heard so much praise of the reissues, will keep trying them out till I find a stellar example.

 

[1allspub]

Old thread I know and I hope whatever the OP’s decision was back in 2020 he’s happy with it.

That said, I do have to agree that Gibson USA guitars can be every bit as good a playing and sounding guitar as a Custom Shop. Like @gball I personally have a 2016 Traditional that is an exceptional sounding and playing guitar and competes very well with my RIs. And that’s why I still have it.

BUUUT… I will say that I’ve owned several Gibson USA LPs (12) and this particular Trad is by far the *best* of all I’ve owned. The others just couldn’t compete with it and are now gone. In fact, until I got my first RI, I couldn’t find an LP that could compete with my Trad. But the RIs I’ve had (5), were all outstanding (still have 2 of them). 4 of the RIs were/are as good or better than the Trad and only one was not quite as good (but still very good).

So the takeaway (at least IME) is that while USA LPs *can* be as good (or even better) than a RI, that RIs are more consistently good and thus you are more likely to get an extra good one from the CS. But, of course, there’s no guarantees and every guitar is its own thing. You just gotta play them and decide for yourself. YMMV

Something that occurred to me after I wrote the diatribe above (ha!) is that my Trad, for all its glory, is pretty heavily modded. I’ve added Faber hardware (ABRN bridge, bridge “iNserts”, aluminum tailpiece, locking tailpiece studs), changed the caps to NOS Russian PIOs, changed out plastics to more vintage correct looking stuff, and changed the pickups to BKP Mules. On my RIs all I really do is swap out the pickups for better boutique PAF clones (not generally a big fan of stock Gibson pickups—whether USA or CS offerings) and add the Faber locking tailpiece studs (because they really do enhance sustain, IME).

So I guess, technically, now that I think about it... I have had to massage my Trad significantly more than my RIs to get it to where it is today. So, I guess if I was talking purely a stock-to-stock comparison, my RIs were “better” out of the box than my Trad. I’ve had that Trad modded since shortly after I bought it new and I kinda forget how much I did to it. The new USA Standards come with ABR-1s and aluminum tailpieces, and orange drop caps and better factory pickups (I was not and am still not a fan of 57 Classics which came stock in my Trad). So from the get go the new Standards come better equipped than my Trad (assuming one considers ABR-1s superior to Nashvilles (especially if the ABRs are just mounted to Nashville body inserts) and aluminum tailpieces superior to heavy zinc ones, etc... which, of course, is also subjective, LOL!).

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that... you just gotta try them for yourself and decide. IME, CS guitars just start out life with a leg up generally. But like people born with silver spoons in their mouths, some excel because of that and some squander that advantage.

Back to the OP’s situation, were I in his shoes, the meager extra $200 for an R8 would make the choice easy (ie, I’d get the R8). It’ll have better resale value (heck he could almost certainly make money reselling it), it won’t need a bunch of mods to bring it up to more vintage spec (if that’s important to someone), and comes with the CS’s gravitas (again, if that’s important to someone). That said, if I could play both and the USA was the better guitar, then I’d obviously just opt for that one. But if they were even just the same... I’d get the R8. It’s just a better investment (especially at that price) and the self-satisfying pleasure of owning a CS LP is not be be ignored. Plus, even though I will NEVER own a vintage Burst, I do have a fascination with them and love to buy books and magazines about them and watch videos about, etc. And having a RI, then, is as close as I will ever come to having an actual Burst. And while that may not factor into the equation for some folks, it just does for me (and I know I’m not alone in that!). So in that regard a RI satisfies in a way a USA does not... as shallow as that may be!

 

[AJK1]

Yeah but LPC’s are still the best…

 

[ajwain]

1allspub: that’s a very honest and sincere account, and if it’s personal like that, then it’s absolutely the right decision.

 

[1allspub]

I should add that I’ve only ever played one of the new Standards (a 50s in a GC). It was a 10lbs pig that sounded decent enough, but the treble side of the bridge was slammed down to the body while the bass side was quite high... and its action was high on both sides. ??? Weird!

Made me wonder if this had a twisted neck or something. Anyway, I put it down and walked away. I’m sure that it was not a good example of most of the new Standards. Just a one-off weirdo! But that’s my only personal experience with the new Standards to date. Would like to try another eventually.

 

[1allspub]

Yeah but LPC’s are still the best…

At least you are consistent.

 

[AJK1]

At least you are consistent.

Ha, yeah, and I’m not biased as I own a 60th RI and a JP LP but Customs are still the best
And I’m on the hunt for another one to keep my White and Silverburst ones company
Maybe a Cherry ?
I’ll be quiet now…

 

[ajwain]

I have a white LPC. It sounds a bit aggressive and weighs as much as a small Pacific island, but I flippin’ love it!

 

[AJK1]

I have a white LPC. It sounds a bit aggressive and weighs as much as a small Pacific island, but I flippin’ love it! View attachment 623862

Year ?

 

[ajwain]

Year ?

1990

 

[AJK1]

1990

Cool

 

[mjross]

I should add that I’ve only ever played one of the new Standards (a 50s in a GC). It was a 10lbs pig that sounded decent enough, but the treble side of the bridge was slammed down to the body while the bass side was quite high... and its action was high on both sides. ??? Weird!

Made me wonder if this had a twisted neck or something. Anyway, I put it down and walked away. I’m sure that it was not a good example of most of the new Standards. Just a one-off weirdo! But that’s my only personal experience with the new Standards to date. Would like to try another eventually.

Yeah, I purchased a 50’s Gold Top from SW a couple years ago that blew my mind! I’ve many Reissues, Replicas, etc so I had some decent guitars to compare the 50 to. I’m not saying it equaled the high end guitars but it is very nice. Nice enough that instead of flipping it as originally intended, I’m keeping it. The new Standards are the real deal!

 

[mjross]

I have a white LPC. It sounds a bit aggressive and weighs as much as a small Pacific island, but I flippin’ love it! View attachment 623862

Hear what you are saying about the weight of LPC’s. The BB Custom in the middle is probably the heaviest single neck guitar I own, even rivals some of my doublenecks. However, it rocks like no other, triple pickups and all. Flanked by two of his “57” buddies…great guitars!

The LPC in the foreground below was my first LPC. Fortunately enough, it is no where near as heavy as the BB above. Just can’t say enough good things about LPC’s!

 

[Nintari]

Trending on sounding like a broken record here but... a custom shop vs a 50's/60's standard is like a D-45 vs a D-41. Same thing, more bling, and a LOT more money. If you like the bling, buy it. But don't kid yourself that you're getting more tone. You're not.