New Les Paul. Possible fake pickups? Tampered? Debating returning.

PauloQS

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Yet you seem to think the prospect of guitars that have been returned even multiple times being sold as new is somehow good for the consumer? It’s not good if you’re the consumer who ends up with it.

If I buy a guitar sight unseen, and there’s nothing actually wrong it other than I don’t like the “little things,“ I have the ability to remedy that. I can list it as a used guitar and sell it myself. Meaning I am personally responsible for resolving my own musical instrument dilemma. What a concept.

I have returned two guitars in my life. One allegedly new guitar, as soon as I opened the gig bag, smelled like cig smoke. It was obvious. That’s a good reason if you’re not a smoker and can’t stand cig smoke. I recently had one that wouldn’t intonate, not even close, with one gauge lighter set of strings. That’s a good reason. Returns are there for good reasons. It’s not supposed to be a demo service.
You are welcome to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. In both your examples, I found those to be legitimate reasons to return a guitar. I also think not bonding with the neck or not liking how the guitar sounds legitimate reasons too. Or simply having buyers remorse. That gives a consumer a sense of security when buying. Take that away and personally I’m less likely to buy online, for instance.

Yes there is always that person who will try to beat or take advantage of the system. That sucks, I get it. But the alternative where no one has the option of a free return sucks even more in my opinion. Again that’s just my opinion, you’re more than welcome to disagree.
 

diogoguitar

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the guitar looks fine, is beautiful and looks like it plays/feels/sounds well. Sounds like a keeper

If you're having second thoughts, it's in your right to return the guitar, but IMHO I'd keep it given the recent feedback I have seen from Gibson LP's.
Note: I personally returned a Gibson recently, but the number and severity of the issues I've seen are nowhere near close to what you're seeing.
 

PauloQS

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you would have to be completely clueless to make this mistake, especially if you work in a guitar factory as a pickup installer.
And yet Gibson has shipped guitars with flipped pickups. In the ‘50s, Seth Lover chose the direction of the pickups purely on aesthetics. There has been talks on pickups back then being put on guitars upside down. Heck, even PRS has a model that does it on purpose, the Custom 24-08.

However, we are not talking about a factory worker here installing pickups. This happened after the guitar was shipped, as seen from OP’s posting of his guitar’s baby picture. I wouldn’t put it past GC losing OP’s guitars baby picture and just grabbing the first one they see, as it’s happened to me more than once, but I digress.

It is not any harder to install the pickups backwards than it is to install them the right way, like you claimed. It’s not an unheard of mistake, either. Finally, this was done by either the tech or the person who returned the guitar, provided we’re looking at the correct baby guitar pic. Thus I don’t see what the factory worker has to do with this thing.

I’m sorry to go all pedantic on you. There is just too much misinformation going around the internet, especially regarding guitars.
 

redking

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And yet Gibson has shipped guitars with flipped pickups. In the ‘50s, Seth Lover chose the direction of the pickups purely on aesthetics. There has been talks on pickups back then being put on guitars upside down. Heck, even PRS has a model that does it on purpose, the Custom 24-08.

However, we are not talking about a factory worker here installing pickups. This happened after the guitar was shipped, as seen from OP’s posting of his guitar’s baby picture. I wouldn’t put it past GC losing OP’s guitars baby picture and just grabbing the first one they see, as it’s happened to me more than once, but I digress.

It is not any harder to install the pickups backwards than it is to install them the right way, like you claimed. It’s not an unheard of mistake, either. Finally, this was done by either the tech or the person who returned the guitar, provided we’re looking at the correct baby guitar pic. Thus I don’t see what the factory worker has to do with this thing.

I’m sorry to go all pedantic on you. There is just too much misinformation going around the internet, especially regarding guitars.
You don't understand the point I am making - I am saying this was NOT done at the factory and likely done by the clown that returned the guitar.
 

diogoguitar

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^^
Could have been a previous customer, but does that matter on the decision of keeping the guitar or not?

It's like you are in college, flirting with a girl who shows interest on you, but all of a sudden you find out she had broken up. Would you stop flirting on her?

If the guitar has no other signs of use (other than the obvious pickup flip), it wouldn't affect my decision of keeping the guitar. I may think in a completely different way than some, but consider even store demo as "new". If there are no obvious signs of use (pick scratches, dents on the body, finish nicks), it's new to me.
 

BDW60

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You are welcome to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. In both your examples, I found those to be legitimate reasons to return a guitar. I also think not bonding with the neck or not liking how the guitar sounds legitimate reasons too. Or simply having buyers remorse. That gives a consumer a sense of security when buying. Take that away and personally I’m less likely to buy online, for instance.

Yes there is always that person who will try to beat or take advantage of the system. That sucks, I get it. But the alternative where no one has the option of a free return sucks even more in my opinion. Again that’s just my opinion, you’re more than welcome to disagree.
I’m probably older than you? (56). I don’t feel entitled to a free anything, honestly. I prefer to resolve my own misstep if I make one, even if it costs me a few bucks. I am not comfortable passing something on to the next person because something didn’t immediately gratify me for some small reason. Or if I suddenly realize I spent money I shouldn’t have.

Yes, I am barely a Boomer, the youngest of the breed, and feel free to OK Boomer me if you are younger and feel the need ... ;) Yes, we agree to respectfully disagree on this topic. And that’s OK.
 

PauloQS

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I’m probably older than you? (56). I don’t feel entitled to a free anything, honestly. I prefer to resolve my own misstep if I make one, even if it costs me a few bucks. I am not comfortable passing something on to the next person because something didn’t immediately gratify me for some small reason. Or if I suddenly realize I spent money I shouldn’t have.

Yes, I am barely a Boomer, the youngest of the breed, and feel free to OK Boomer me if you are younger and feel the need ... ;) Yes, we agree to respectfully disagree on this topic. And that’s OK.
I received my fair share of ok boomer myself, despite being in my 40s. I wouldn’t dare ok boomer you. I think this whole generation rivalry is idiotic and just another excuse of some ridiculous unproductive tribalism. Anyways, I digress.

I might not be as old as you, but I’m old enough to remember what it was like to buy guitars before the internet. I remember the mantra that was taught to us to always play the instrument you’re going to get first. Don’t go for the shiny one that’s hidden in the back of the warehouse unopened without opening it first and playing it first. Always listen to your ears, not the eyes, spec sheet, marketing brochure or sales person spiel. Every instrument is unique.

The other thing I remember was no Trogly level of scrutiny with everything we purchased. No macro lenses. Nobody cared about small tool marks.

I’m also not buying I’m older than you, I dealt with my own mistakes and yet you feel entitled to a discount if a guitar has been returned and is, until proven otherwise, in perfect condition. So what the pickup was removed from its ring, if it was put back in place. Even if it is upside down, it’s an easy enough mistake to remedy.

My opinion about the return policy is not guided by my age. I think age has nothing to do with this. It’s all economics, maker and incentives. I think the stricter return policy would make everyone worse off, both sellers and buyers, from a purely economics standpoint.
 

PauloQS

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Not you. The dingleberry. Lol.

Phil does a really good job in my opinion.
I agree. I might sometimes not share his views or opinions, but I do respect him a lot. Unlike some other hype beast YBers.
 

BadPenguin

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But their guitar tech who didn’t do a damn thing to help, kept coming by and playing it off as completely normal, saying sometimes the pickups get flipped, and it’s super common to see on brand new guitars. I didn’t appreciate that, just seemed dishonest and not genuine.
It's a GC guitar "tech". The vast majority of them that I have dealt with, got the job because they knew where the "A" string was and owned a screw driver.
When a tech defends something like that, he's at fault.

2 quickie reason why I think a lot of GC techs are idiots with tools. Picked up a guitar once, asked the tech why the low price. His reply, "I can't figure out the wiring issue." Bought it. Wiring issue? Needed a new battery.
Looked at an SG on the floor, saw a line around the headstock. "Ok, must be repaired, no biggie." Gave a little push on the headstock, had it come off in my hand. Manager explained that the tech "...just repaired that yesterday." Used rubber cement.
 

InTheEvening

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Just got home. Here’s pictures of the back control cavity. Hopefully the pictures are okay, I don’t have the best lighting. But let me know if you need to see something better.
I also forgot to mention, when they were correcting the pickup position for me at the store, they had to take the pickup out of the pickup ring and flip it, it took some time and effort reassembling everything with the springs and all, so I def don’t think this was an accident. Someone had it take the pickup out of the pickup ring to change it.





 
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InTheEvening

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thanks for sending this.
Yeah, I'm not the most knowledgeable guitar tech in town but the wiring looks original to me
[/QUOTE
Thanks for taking a look, that’s really reassuring to hear. I trust you guys far more than any of the techs at the Guitar Center.
 

Overture

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Thanks for taking a look, that’s really reassuring to hear. I trust you guys far more than any of the techs at the Guitar Center.
Based on the pictures, the wiring looks all original to me.

If the guitar plays and sounds good and has no other flaws, I'd keep it for sure. I would however want some sort of discount for a guitar that left the store and came back. To me that's the basic definition of a "used" product. Don't care if it was used for 20 minutes or 20 years, it left the store and came back. It also came back not as it left, as clearly the original purchaser flipped the pickup.
 

InTheEvening

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Based on the pictures, the wiring looks all original to me.

If the guitar plays and sounds good and has no other flaws, I'd keep it for sure. I would however want some sort of discount for a guitar that left the store and came back. To me that's the basic definition of a "used" product. Don't care if it was used for 20 minutes or 20 years, it left the store and came back. It also came back not as it left, as clearly the original purchaser flipped the pickup.
Thanks, how much of a discount can I reasonably expect?
I used their Presidents day 15% off coupon, the day I bought it. So it was discounted to $2125 when I bought it. Can I ask them to discount it further?

I could have easily ordered a brand new mint model online with the same discount that weekend. So I feel like they should offer something extra on top for this one. I’d love to keep it even if they give a small discount or something.
 

MP4-22

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Thanks, how much of a discount can I reasonably expect?
I used their Presidents day 15% off coupon, the day I bought it. So it was discounted to $2125 when I bought it. Can I ask them to discount it further?

I could have easily ordered a brand new mint model online with the same discount that weekend. So I feel like they should offer something extra on top for this one. I’d love to keep it even if they give a small discount or something.
The cavity looks good...i was worried for you that the guy had swapped the pups out and then swapped them back in, then it surely wouldn't be new if the factory wiring was altered. i wouldn't worry about it, you got a good deal and you definitely like the guitar so rock on. Life is too short to stress over a backwards pup.
 

PauloQS

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To me looks like absolutely the original solder joints. Very clean, actually. Good to see it from Gibson.
 

treemanjohn

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If Guitar Center knowingly sold a used item as new they should be sued... hard.
To sue you need damages. Not sure what they would be. Also GC will have several attorneys against just you because am attorney would never take that case
 

Nintari

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To sue you need damages. Not sure what they would be. Also GC will have several attorneys against just you because am attorney would never take that case
Selling something as "new" when it's not is against the law so all it would take is a class-action suit and there would be nothing they could do. Companies far larger than them (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony just to name a few) have all lost class-action suits for lesser offenses than what Guitar Center is alleged to be doing.
 


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