New Information About Gibson's Lack of Quality Control

[truckermde]

There are much better Les Paul Replicas available than the Les Paul Replicas being sold by the investment bankers currently in possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of the actual company & people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place.

Of course there are lots of great current Gibby examples out there, but it's laughable at best to consider them to be a premium guitar manufacturer in the same league as PRS.

They sell nostalgia. But I buy musical instruments.

 

[Norton]

It’s an easy fix. Pay your people that are MAKING the guitars. And don’t make speed the metric by which success is measured.

Also...Henry, get the f**k out of the process.

You have long been the driving force behind the “problem”.

 

[Norton]

You know. That prs post is spot on.

I’ll never buy a prs, Or play one out. Totally not my comfort zone. But they sure make ‘em right. And mr Smith should be celebrated along with Joel dantzig, dean Zelinski and bill Collings and bob Taylor for their major contributions to pushing the design and guitar production envelope forward.

It’s not like building awesome guitars is impossible. You just need to focus on building awesome guitars...and not photo ops with slash and douche bag watches.

 

[brianbzed]

I have some new information about Gibson’s lack of quality control. Yesterday I ordered a particular Gibson Les Paul from Sweetwater that was currently out of stock. The online listing noted that, “More are on the way,” and indicated that I could reserve mine now. So, I pulled the trigger. Today I received a telephone call from my assigned sales engineer. He said that today they received a shipment of the particular guitar I ordered but not a single guitar in the shipment passed their inspection. All of them have to be returned to Gibson. I was shocked. He told me that Sweetwater has to send an average of 13% of all Gibson guitars back to the company because they do not pass Sweetwater’s initial inspection. It looks like today was an especially bad day for Gibson.

Been fortunate to have all keepers with my recent ( 2013-14 ) Les Pauls, except one. No finish or fret flaws. My Wino red had an intermittant neck pickup. Too bad, because this guitar played and sounded better than average... Took it back to GC ( and they have a very good luthier/repairman there....I know, the exception to the rule!) had the switch replaced but that didn't solve the problem. The luthier guy said they had a run of Gibsons with screwed up electronics come through. Ended up exchanging the instrument for another Wino that was shipped in from Seattle.
I guess Gibson QC is just a sad reality of life.....but it doesn't lessen my love for a good Les Paul!!

 

[captainbraindamage]

I had Sweetwater do the same. Sent me a different Epi from the one I ordered because the first one didn't pass their inspection.

 

[Dave_W]

There are much better Les Paul Replicas available than the Les Paul Replicas being sold by the investment bankers currently in possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of the actual company & people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place.

Of course there are lots of great current Gibby examples out there, but it's laughable at best to consider them to be a premium guitar manufacturer in the same league as PRS.

They sell nostalgia. But I buy musical instruments.

The actual company and people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place was a conglomerate (CMI) which was in the possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of Orville Gibson and the original Gibson company.

But I get your point, and I agree.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The keeper is still a piece of crap. I'll probably be selling it too very soon.

lol, with a build-up like that, it's bound to go quickly.

 

[guitarforhire]

As someone that works in a music store and sells both Gibsons and Fenders, I can tell you that we spend more time fixing and adjusting Fenders then we do Gibsons.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As someone that works in a music store and sells both Gibsons and Fenders, I can tell you that we spend more time fixing and adjusting Fenders then we do Gibsons.

Out of curiosity, what are the problems you typically see in each brand?

 

[guitarforhire]

With Fenders, we've had to do everything from grounding them, to replacing pickups, to the usual neck adjustments and having to replace necks. For the most part, the Gibsons need a neck tweak.....

 

[truckermde]

The actual company and people who gave us the Les Paul in the first place was a conglomerate (CMI) which was in the possession of the legal rights to exploit the name, designs, and legacy of Orville Gibson and the original Gibson company.

But I get your point, and I agree.

You're definitely right to point that out.

I know that, and I don't really say it right. It's just that it was under the Chicago helm that Gibson made the products I know and love.

But it does kinda squash half my point that CMI was much the same thing that Henry Inc. is. I just like the stuff they did better...

I wonder how many years will go by before some of Henry's changes/develpoments will be considered in the same light as Mr. McCarty's?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

With Fenders, we've had to do everything from grounding them, to replacing pickups, to the usual neck adjustments and having to replace necks. For the most part, the Gibsons need a neck tweak.....

Interesting to hear, thanks for the reply.

You're definitely right to point that out.

I know that, and I don't really say it right. It's just that it was under the Chicago helm that Gibson made the products I know and love.

But it does kinda squash half my point that CMI was much the same thing that Henry Inc. is. I just like the stuff they did better...

I wonder how many years will go by before some of Henry's changes/develpoments will be considered in the same light as Mr. McCarty's?

I think the only thing that will stand the test of time is weight-relief, now that the heavy=sustain thing has been put to bed.

 

[paruwi]

I wonder how many years will go by before some of Henry's changes/develpoments will be considered in the same light as Mr. McCarty's?

Never.....

 

[truckermde]

Never.....

That's what I was thinking, but I was just trying to seem magnanimous...

 

[edro]

As an old retired Post CSM decades back preached to our solid state systems class daily, "Expect what you inspect."

Later years in various positions I've held, I followed that mantra. The focus was on the problems, not the people. Fix the problems immediately. Find out WHY the problem exists. Prevent the problems from occurring ever again... If the problems persist, then it is 'people time' but address the problems first and respect your people.

Going full spider monkey on everybody on every problem doesn't fix crap, just pisses folks off....

Someone has to spot the issue and someone has to address the issue directly like a laser.

I wonder if Head Cheeze ever roams the plant and inspects anything....


I would imagine that not much happens that PRS or JS don't know about in their respective plants... I just don't see any issues with either of their guitars...

That's what effective mgt is paid to do...

 

[dspelman]

In Gibson's defense the 'hand built' guitars all have variations, its part of their charm we cherish but then its the downside that we complain about here.

Gibsons are no more "hand built" than any other production electric guitar. Dunno where that myth came from, but it should be quashed. Crap is crap, and not to be "cherished." When a high-priced manufacturer puts out instruments that aren't as good, by objective inspection, as guitars a tenth their price, there's no "charm" there, and complaints are legitimate.

Furthermore, "hand built" should have less issues, not more. Tom Prisloe, near Ithaca, NY, builds classical guitars for concert guitarists, one at a time, without CNC machines. Those guitars are not only amazing tonally, but they're also perfection physically. I have a few handbuilt guitars (again, no CNC machining) that were perfect when they arrived. Handbuilt by a craftsman is a lot different from slapped together by task-oriented production workers. And that latter is what you get at the Gibson Factory.

Gibsons have issues in part because they ARE production guiltars, and because management is on workers to keep production rates high, and because tolerances on guitars under $3500 are a lot looser than they are on guitars over that amount.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As an old retired Post CSM decades back preached to our solid state systems class daily, "Expect what you inspect."

Later years in various positions I've held, I followed that mantra. The focus was on the problems, not the people. Fix the problems immediately. Find out WHY the problem exists. Prevent the problems from occurring ever again... If the problems persist, then it is 'people time' but address the problems first and respect your people.

Going full spider monkey on everybody on every problem doesn't fix crap, just pisses folks off....

Someone has to spot the issue and someone has to address the issue directly like a laser.

I wonder if Head Cheeze ever roams the plant and inspects anything....


I would imagine that not much happens that PRS or JS don't know about in their respective plants... I just don't see any issues with either of their guitars...

That's what effective mgt is paid to do...

That's right. Attention to detail, without humiliating subordinates. Solid mgmt practice.

 

[laterider]

Gibsons are no more "hand built" than any other production electric guitar. Dunno where that myth came from, but it should be quashed. Crap is crap, and not to be "cherished." When a high-priced manufacturer puts out instruments that aren't as good, by objective inspection, as guitars a tenth their price, there's no "charm" there, and complaints are legitimate.

Furthermore, "hand built" should have less issues, not more. Tom Prisloe, near Ithaca, NY, builds classical guitars for concert guitarists, one at a time, without CNC machines. Those guitars are not only amazing tonally, but they're also perfection physically. I have a few handbuilt guitars (again, no CNC machining) that were perfect when they arrived. Handbuilt by a craftsman is a lot different from slapped together by task-oriented production workers. And that latter is what you get at the Gibson Factory.

Gibsons have issues in part because they ARE production guiltars, and because management is on workers to keep production rates high, and because tolerances on guitars under $3500 are a lot looser than they are on guitars over that amount.

Myth comes from guys like me, just something about these guitars puts me in a zone when playing one... I'm obviously in denial on aspects of production here and I just want to enjoy playing one but I also did suggest if you don't like don't buy.
On another topic my job involves efforts that get realized by a separate production dept and some useful info here to remind those mgrs of!

 

[LP Bob]

I agree with the Gibson QC issues on recent guitars, the catch is the LP's still sound and look so good, so the QC issues are frustrating, especially for the steep price. Thankfully I got lucky with a new back then 2009 LP Trad Pro that I played in GC. I went in looking for another PRS (have a 1992 CE-24 that I bought new after seeing Alex Lifeson with it), but I luckily stumbled across this particular LP Trad Pro Cherry burst while there. I ended up comparing it to 10 others axe's, Strats, PRS $3,500 SC250 and SC245's, PRS Mira, Starlet, 5 other LP's, chambered, not chambered, Dean, etc, and this Trad Pro gave me a sonic and visceral hard-on the others didn't, through Marshall and Mesa's in-store. It just feels, sounds, and looks right. I got lucky as I was able to play it in person, online guitar purchasing can be tricky.

 

[edro]

I personally don't care if a CNC is involved.
A CNC cuts wood, it doesn't build the damn guitar.
'Hand cut is better than CNC cut' is complete bullshit.
Machinist does his job right and the operator does theirs right, all will be consistent.
Consistent means all the same, deviation is almost nonexistent, perfect clones....

A hand cut neck/body and a CNC cut neck/body are still just necks and bodies...
It's what the builder does with the chunks of wood that gives em da mojo...


The last mile is all hand.
It's the last mile that makes the difference.
It's the last mile that makes it magic or chipper food....
It's the last mile that defines the builder as far as their focus.
It's the last mile that will elevate a builder above the status quo into the spotlight.
It's the last mile that can bust a builder's reputation and status from Elvis, down to Esteban.

It's the last mile that can put your silly ass out of bidness....