Need some help from the speaker guys out there....

[Pwrmac7600]

I know there are some of you here who have tried them all. So I need some expertise. Specifically in regard to Celestion's.
I am kind of going backwards a little bit here being that last year I was very stupid and sold of a vintage, mint quad of G12M Black Backs that were loaded in my 1960B cab. Wish I had held onto them..... But can't go back....
So I am looking for some replacements for my 4X12. But I am thinking maybe the G12H 30 55? I am not 100% sure of all the differences between the different models. Here's what I have deciphered thus far.
G12H 30 55Hz - more lows, 30 watts and a heavier Magnet.
G12M 25 75Hz - More Mids, 25 watts slightly smaller magnet than the above.

Now what I am curious about is;
G12H 30 75Hz Greyback
G12H 30 75Hz Creamback
G12M 25 55Hz Blackback

So assuming the Low Frequency resonance is a good determination of the speakers color? 55HZ will get me more lows, 75HZ more mid focused?

For reference I am a Hard Rock/Metal player. I already have English V30's in 2 different 4X12's. So I am looking at moving one of them back over to a Green, black, or cream back style speaker for more of a hard rock type tone to pair with my more Marshall style amps.

How do the anniversary models/newer english models sound in comparison to the older more vintage models?

 

[jbrew1977]

Depending on the hard rock/metal that you play I would suggest something entirely different. If you dig a tighter, bass heavy, sledgehammer type sound you might be better served with something besides those you have listed. If you must have Celestion I would look into a G12K-100. If you're open to other brands an Eminence Swamp Thang pairs very nicely with a V30 (or V30 style) and flat out shames anything I've heard for the metal tones I like. There's also the the EV12L or the Black Label version. It is my humble opinion that if you prefer modern metal the ones I mentioned will get you there better than the others. If you're looking for a more EVH type of tone I would say the Greenbacks would be great though.

 

[Pwrmac7600]

Well I currently am running an X pattern in the cab of Vintage 30's and WGS HM75's.
They are proving to be a little harsh in the top end for me, Probably because they are nowhere near broken in, and since I don't play live I fear I will never be able to put them through the punishment needed to really break them in. The V30's I picked up from a 1990's Mesa Cab which was well broken in so they sound perfect.
I guess what I am going for here since I already have a Vintage 30 loaded cab, is just to give my other cab a different flavor. Not that i will be running them at the same time. The Vintage 30's do my metal tone very well. When I say hard rock tone I guess what i mean is a more vintagy hard rock tone, if that makes sense? not old school hair metal hard rock but more overdriven overdrive type hard rock as opposed to high gain metal. Hopefully that makes sense to someone other than me. lol

 

[wrc73]

For what you are looking for, IMO, you can't beat two G12M 75 speakers and 2 G12H 75 speakers in an X pattern. I'm primarily a Weber guy so I would recommend their C1225 (G12M 75 clone) with the pre-Rola treatment paired with either their Legacy G12H 75 clone or the C1230 with pre-Rola treatment.

I run a Weber C1225 and Legacy G12H 75 in my 2061 style 2x12 cab and it is perfect for classic rock stuff. I've tried a bunch of different speakers in this cab:

2 X G12M
G12H 75 x G12H 55
V30 x G12H 75
V30 x G12H 55
V30 x G12M

The M/H combo always wins out, although the V30 x G12H 75 combo is great if you want a touch more modern sound that can still do good classic rock tones.

 

[jbrew1977]

One question... Have the speakers been thoroughly beat on for a while? Not sure about the WGS but V30s take FOREVER to break in, and they are shrill until they do! That said even before break in the Swamp Thang has a very present but relaxed top end right out of the box. It's the upper mids more than anything because in all honestly the ST has more treble it just doesn't come across as unpleasant so much as a V30 without about 80 hours of hard/loud play.

 

[ac/dcfan87]

The 55hz speakers have more bass and low mids. With the G12H 55hz I also found that it has some extended highs as well. I've played the G12H and G12M 55hz. In general the 55hz have a rounder thicker low end that doesn't fall apart as easily as the 75hz ones do. The other key here is you get a lot more fat low midrange. Think more like Paul Kossoff. It's a fatter more meaty tone than 75hz speakers. The high mids sound flat to me like the usual spike isn't there.

The G12H55hz that I had was the best speaker I've ever heard. IMO I wouldn't use 55hz speakers in an open back cab situation. I just don't think they gel very well IMO.

 

[notjoeaverage]

I have been using three sets of speakers mixed and matched in three different 2x12s for several years. I have a ported 1/3rd open back, a closed back, and a vertical closed back. Using 90's Mesa V30s, G12H30 55Hz from 78 and Greenbacks from the 76. V30 and a Greenback, V30 and a G12H30, G12H30 and a Greenback. They all work well together and give you a good classic rock to hard 70s rock and even blues vibe. Take your pick

 

[Pwrmac7600]

I have been using three sets of speakers mixed and matched in three different 2x12s for several years. I have a ported 1/3rd open back, a closed back, and a vertical closed back. Using 90's Mesa V30s, G12H30 55Hz from 78 and Greenbacks from the 76. V30 and a Greenback, V30 and a G12H30, G12H30 and a Greenback. They all work well together and give you a good classic rock to hard 70s rock and even blues vibe. Take your pick

Interesting, I hadn't thought of mixing these with the V30's!

 

[cybermgk]

Don't laugh, but consider the Celestion V Type speaker.

I have been utterly impressed with mine. Sits between a Greenback and G12H, imho.

 

[SWeAT hOg]

Depending on the hard rock/metal that you play I would suggest something entirely different. If you dig a tighter, bass heavy, sledgehammer type sound you might be better served with something besides those you have listed. If you must have Celestion I would look into a G12K-100. If you're open to other brands an Eminence Swamp Thang pairs very nicely with a V30 (or V30 style) and flat out shames anything I've heard for the metal tones I like. There's also the the EV12L or the Black Label version. It is my humble opinion that if you prefer modern metal the ones I mentioned will get you there better than the others. If you're looking for a more EVH type of tone I would say the Greenbacks would be great though.

Don't laugh, but consider the Celestion V Type speaker.

I have been utterly impressed with mine. Sits between a Greenback and G12H, imho.

Mix the V-Type with the G12K-100. They are a match made in heaven for the Hard Rock/Metal guitarist.

 

[Matt_Krush]

What ever speakers you choose, make sure they have the same spDb rating (or as close as possible). That way they all have the same 'loudness' (efficiency).

I just received an A-Type & a V-Type to try out in my JCM 900 4501.
I just put the A-Type in last night...once the house is devoid of girlfriend...I'll crank it up and start breaking it in.

If neither works out well in the combo....they'll get put in a 2-12 cab.

 

[jbrew1977]

Mix the V-Type with the G12K-100. They are a match made in heaven for the Hard Rock/Metal guitarist.

I can get on board with that... SLIGHTLY different from my Swamp Thang, but basically the same concept between it and a G12K-100. They absolutely OWN that sound!

 

[bulletproof]

For what you are looking for, IMO, you can't beat two G12M 75 speakers and 2 G12H 75 speakers in an X pattern. I'm primarily a Weber guy so I would recommend their C1225 (G12M 75 clone) with the pre-Rola treatment paired with either their Legacy G12H 75 clone or the C1230 with pre-Rola treatment.

I run a Weber C1225 and Legacy G12H 75 in my 2061 style 2x12 cab and it is perfect for classic rock stuff. I've tried a bunch of different speakers in this cab:

2 X G12M
G12H 75 x G12H 55
V30 x G12H 75
V30 x G12H 55
V30 x G12M

The M/H combo always wins out, although the V30 x G12H 75 combo is great if you want a touch more modern sound that can still do good classic rock tones.

+1 on the Weber speakers....

and I also have to throw in the A/V type from Celestion...I havent had any hands on time with these speakers,but,I have heard really good things about them from a lot of players.

 

[Big John]

For recording, I use Mojo's versions of a GB and a 30H with different mics and blended at the board. In each of my live rigs (both are 2x12's), I use a Mesa V30 with a 30H variant (Emi Wizard). I don't think I'll ever go back to using one speaker type, because mixing just sounds better...to my ears, anyway.

 

[Pwrmac7600]

So I have to ask a stupid question.....
What is actually considered a true greenback? Because I see the G12H and the G12M both listed as greenbacks. I mean they do both actually have green backs, but is one considered more the true greenback sound than the other?

 

[Big John]

M

 

[blackat]

I'm selling the 12" Celestial V out of my Vox AC-15 if you're interested.

 

[Pwrmac7600]

M

lol that's what I thought, makes it confusing since the H and the M both come in greenback....

 

[Pwrmac7600]

Anyone who has experience with Weber speakers care to state how the 1225 Compares to the 70's era G12M tone wise?

Edit: and how about scumback as well?