Need some advice with a treble bleed cap?

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

So,

I've been neglecting my LP A LOT LATELY. Hell, I even tested the waters with possibly selling it. At one point a guy offered me a good amount of cash, but after taking it out to take a final look I said, "**** that, no way"!

Ya even though I love it and can't part with it I'm still not playing it. The problem, and the reason why I pickup my tele 95% of the time, is that when I reduce the volume while playing the treble also dies out. Basically, as the volume goes down it becomes bassy and muddy (as if mids become overly present.

So that's my main issue, but my local luthier said its an easy fix. He said a treble bleed cap will Reduce the bass frequencies and slightly increase the high mids. Anyone do this mod with good results?

Also, some of you all suggested "50's wiring"? Can you all, in simple terms, tell me what that type of wiring does, and if it could help me???

Thanks for reading and helping!

I always got to add a pic when I make a thread. It should be a rule, lol!

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

Hmm maybe I should have titled this, "what's better chambered or non-chambered"...

 

[DanL]

If you wire your pickups in series instead of parallel you won't lose as much treble when you lower the volume, and you have a better variety in tones in my opinion. when the tone is all the way up its really bright and if you use both pickups but the front pickup tone down it gives you a very deep, warm, soulful "broadbucker" sound.

I also think it gives a better tone. You could also try new caps. I've never replaced caps to fix this problem, but I always use 002 and never have this problem. I do notice a difference in treble when I turn the volume knob down, but it isn't muddy at all.

 

[MATTM]

50's wiring will greatly improve the clarity when rolling the volumes back. Simple mod. Forget the treble bleed. It's over-rated and doesn't work that well.

 

[nicolasrivera]

Treble bleeds need to be custome tuned to your pickups, that's why some say they don't work that well.

The same applies to tone caps, is rediculus to assume one tone cap will sound great with any other pickup out there, if you spend the time and money on different caps you will be blown away.

IMO.

 

[MATTM]

IMHO opinion of course, treble bleeds do more harm than good. I can't think of a better way to screw up the taper of a pot.

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

Thanks for the input. The guy doing the mod is not a garage tech, he's a pro (a real luthier). So, I'm not worried about it being done correctly. However, I will seriously consider the comments regarding its effectiveness. So, 50's wiring what is it, can it help me?????

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

No one with 50's wiring experience?

 

[River]

No one with 50's wiring experience?

I've done it to my two LPs, Junior, and Melody Maker. What to do is covered in the wiring sticky in the Tonefreaks section (it's very simple).

What I get out of it is bridge pickups that have to have the tone rolled down even when the volume's on 5, and more clear, chimier neck pickups with the volume on 4.

 

[onlypadog]

I've got 50s wiring...I can't explain how it works, all I can say is that I don't lose treble when turning down volume, and I have more control in general over the tonal range using all of the pots. Much better than stock wiring imo

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

I've done it to my two LPs, Junior, and Melody Maker. What to do is covered in the wiring sticky in the Tonefreaks section (it's very simple).

What I get out of it is bridge pickups that have to have the tone rolled down even when the volume's on 5, and more clear, chimier neck pickups with the volume on 4.

Thanks, so do you think (or anyone) that 50s wiring will be more benificial than a treble bleed cap?? Particularly because I play my volume and tone knobs during play, and I get a decrease in treble when dropping the volume.

 

[DanL]

The only difference in 50's wiring (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) is that the cap is on the output lug rather than the input lug of the tone pot. I do think it would help your problem some, but I would try wiring the pickups in series also. I think you get a better tone and definitely more treble response at a wider range of volumes. It isn't quite as loud as parallel wiring, but that's easily fixable.

 

[MATTM]

No one with 50's wiring experience?

Re-Read Post#4.

FWIW- "Custom tuning" a treble bleed to pickups is nonsense. By design, it has nothing to do with the pickups and everything to do with altering the taper of the pot.

 

[korus]

IMHO opinion of course, treble bleeds do more harm than good. I can't think of a better way to screw up the taper of a pot.

most of treble bleeds have cap and res in parallel - these change vol pot's taper AND leave too much highest highs as you roll off the vol pot

if and when you find time, try 1nF capacitor and 330k (or 390k) resistor IN SERIES ( usual values of 120k,130k,150k,220k are too low, but you might try 220k with neck HB in a LP)

when in series capacitor prevents resistor to alter the taper and
resistor prevents that capacitor bleeds too much treble as you roll off the vol pot

note: I do use both 50's wiring AND this IN SERIES treble bleed in my guitars

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

most of treble bleeds have cap and res in parallel - these change vol pot's taper AND leave too much highest highs as you roll off the vol pot

if and when you find time, try 1nF capacitor and 330k (or 390k) resistor IN SERIES ( usual values of 120k,130k,150k,220k are too low, but you might try 220k with neck HB in a LP)

when in series capacitor prevents resistor to alter the taper and
resistor prevents that capacitor bleeds too much treble as you roll off the vol pot

note: I do use both 50's wiring AND this IN SERIES treble bleed in my guitars

Hey thanks for responding,

What remedy would you prefer than for my issue? Treble bleed cap or 50s wiring? I'm sorry, I'm a newb when it comes to wiring and electronics.

 

[MATTM]

most of treble bleeds have cap and res in parallel - these change vol pot's taper AND leave too much highest highs as you roll off the vol pot

if and when you find time, try 1nF capacitor and 330k (or 390k) resistor IN SERIES ( usual values of 120k,130k,150k,220k are too low, but you might try 220k with neck HB in a LP)

when in series capacitor prevents resistor to alter the taper and
resistor prevents that capacitor bleeds too much treble as you roll off the vol pot

note: I do use both 50's wiring AND this IN SERIES treble bleed in my guitars

Yep, we tried that a couple years ago and found it a bit better than the parallel wiring, but still not as usable as 50's wiring.

 

[Pinkie]

The OP er seems to be enamored with the term treble bleed and figures that is what he needs.
If it still has the Gibson electronics take that out and go with an upgrade kit from any one of the dealers selling them here they are far better quality than the pots Gibson uses.
Stock pots are 300k vol and 500k tone at least on my SG they are.
Use 500k on all four pots and good pio caps I'll bet that will solve all your problems.
50,s wiring I like better because you have a wider range of usable tones.
A quality wiring harness is the best thing you can do for a L.P. tone wise.

 

[ReWind James]

Try 50's wiring. Also, adjust your pickups. Whatcha got there? A Traditional? '57 Classics aren't the brightest PAFs out there by a long shot. Try lowering them and raising the adjustable poll screws. Particularly the neck. Do this while playing and listen as you adjust.

DEFINITELY try 50's wiring though. It's free and easy! Roll back the volume AND tone with 50's and you'll get a nice bright scooped mid sound.

 

[GibsonMarshallGuy]

Pinkie, I still don't know what 50's wiring IS. Is it a different wiring scheme, or is it just better hardware? Is it both? Are the higher pot values giving me more treble? I'm a complete newb, and I need help at least understanding it.

 

[ReWind James]

Dude, just check the sticky thread at the very top of the tone forum. There's an entire section of the forum called the "Wiring Library" here. Guess what's in it?
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html

50's wiring has been discussed TO DEATH here and everywhere else. Probably why nobody is explaining it at the basic level you are asking for. A Google search would have given you all the info, too.

How's this?

Now fire up that iron!