Need help with Vintage Gibson Humbucker pickup in my guitar

Texsunburst59

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This past Sunday I found and put on layaway a '89/'90 Epiphone Sheraton II guitar

The guitar is not 100% stock and has 2 hardware upgrades.

1) vintage Gold Schaller M6 mini tuners
2) vintage Gold Schaller Model 492 Quick Change Stop Tail Bar w/ fine tuning adjustable screws(removed by previous owner)

Here's where Gibson pickup question comes in.

I think besides upgrading the above pieces of hardware, the previous owner upgraded the pickups as well.

On almost all pictures I've ever seen of these older '89 to early 90's Epi Sheraton guitars, the gold plating on these pickups is almost always rubbed off the tops of both neck and bridge pickups.

I've also noticed that almost all the import humbuckers installed in the Korean, Chinese,etc........ imports guitars, all have phillips head screws for the pickups height adjustment.

I'm thinking that the pickups in this guitar might be vintage Gibson humbuckers for thes reasons

1) the pickup height adjustment screws on both the bridge and neck are slotted head screws common to older late 60's and early 70's Gibson Patten Sticker T-Tops.

2) the gold plating wear on these 2 pickups is consistent with the better quality used on Gibson pickups

3) I've never ever seen slotted head screws pickup height adjustment screws used on any import pickups

Here's some pics of my Sheraton with pickups in question.




My Gibson 80's guitars with original pickups all use the phillips head screw for the pickup height adjustment as well.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance.
 

ARandall

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My thoughts are that you are going to want to do a LOT more than just guess - you know take them out and look more closely at baseplates etc.
Every aftermarket pickup winder also uses the sort of screw that can be slotted as well......from $25 units like GFS all the way through Duncan to boutiques.
Plus modern Gibson pickups use slotted too......or slotted screws could have been bought aftermarket and used for any modern pickup with the same pitch screw tapping.
 

Texsunburst59

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My thoughts are that you are going to want to do a LOT more than just guess - you know take them out and look more closely at baseplates etc.
Every aftermarket pickup winder also uses the sort of screw that can be slotted as well......from $25 units like GFS all the way through Duncan to boutiques.
Plus modern Gibson pickups use slotted too......or slotted screws could have been bought aftermarket and used for any modern pickup with the same pitch screw tapping.

Thanks for replying ARandall.

Don't most modern pickups use Phillips screws for pickup height because in general, they're way easier to use , and the screw driver won't slip off the screw head like they do on slotted?

I would think that the main reason anyone would want slotted head screws on a modern pickup,would be if they're trying for a period correct look on a vintage reissue guitar.

I know there's no exact rules, this is my thinking, and I just wanted to know if anybody else would agree with my logical thought process .
 
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Maggot_Brain

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Thanks for replying ARandall.

Don't most modern pickups use Phillips screws for pickup height because in general, the way easier to use , the the screw driver won't slip off the screw head like they do on slotted?

I would think that the main reason anyone would want slotted head screws on an modern pickup,would be if they're trying for a period correct look on a vintage reissue guitar.

I know there's no exact rules, this is my thinking, and I just wanted to know if anybody else would agree with my logical thought process .
No. They could literally be anything and the slotted screws could've been bought and added later. Import pickups can use slotted screws just as easily as any other pickup can. Seeing them means nothing. You are no more or less likely to have any specific pickup based on what screws you see.

You could have 2021 pickups from China with slotted screws or you could have 1959 Gibson pickups with Phillips head screws. You cannot make even a pre-determination based on screws and wear or lack thereof. You need to take the pickups out and see exactly what you have. Screws aren't part of the pickup so they can be anything and can be changed out at any time.
 

cooljuk

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Someone filed the inside corners of the pickup rings to make the new pickups fit. Not very cleanly, either.
 

Texsunburst59

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Where are the pole screws for the neck pickup?
Or did I miss something ?
There is also a set of Acoustic guitar strings on it and your intonation is way out
Yeah the guitar is a mess and I'm going address all those issues once I get it out.
It'll get cleaned up and get all the TLC it needs.
 

Texsunburst59

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Someone filed the inside corners of the pickup rings to make the new pickups fit. Not very cleanly, either.
I saw the same thing.

I'm guessing these new Gibson USA pickups ,if they are that ,with the Gibson pickup rings wouldn't fit the holes that were on the Sheraton.

They had to modify the existing rings to accommodate the new pickup/Gibson pickup.
 

AJK1

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You must really want it because it would cost a fair whack to get it to where it should be
 

DarrellV

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I saw the same thing.

I'm guessing these new Gibson USA pickups ,if they are that ,with the Gibson pickup rings wouldn't fit the holes that were on the Sheraton.

They had to modify the existing rings to accommodate the new pickup/Gibson pickup.
I'm thinking he had to do more than that to get those pickups into there...

What about the wiring nightmare of wiring up a hollow body correctly? It's pretty involved and not for the faint of heart.

Or did he just cut and splice the wires under the pickups instead?

Black tape and all..... :eek2:

:run:
 

DarrellV

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I had one of those years ago when it was new...

For reference....

 

Texsunburst59

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I'm thinking he had to do more than that to get those pickups into there...

What about the wiring nightmare of wiring up a hollow body correctly? It's pretty involved and not for the faint of heart.

Or did he just cut and splice the wires under the pickups instead?

Black tape and all..... :eek2:

:run:
Here's what I'm now thinking Darrell.

I'm thinking the pickups in there are '57 Classic humbuckers.

They were introduced in 1990 around this time this guitar was purchased and fit the timeline.

The owner went to the trouble to upgrade the Tuners and Stop Bar Tailpiece to some really good Schaller hardware.

Also in attempt to put together a Gibson 335 style guitar, he installed these Gibson '57 Classic pickups.

The Gibson '57 Classic comes stock with the vintage slotted head pickup mounting screws.

Now whether this guy or someone else attempted to upgrade the wiring harness is something I kinda doubt.

With as much trouble it'd be to work through the very small F holes, it's not likely,but who knows.

I guess the questions about the pickups and whether the wiring was upgraded, will all be answered when I get the guitar out.

It would be AMAZING though if the pickups are Gibson's, and all the wiring was upgraded. :fingersx:
 

dandorledo

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Just check out the base plates easily by taking off the 8 screws of your pickups rings! We will finally see what you've got underneath those Nice golden covers ;-) and PLEASE MY FRIEND!!! Take à few pictures of these pickups! Thanks ;-)
 

jbash

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There has been far more time wasted typing up these posts speculating what they are, than it would take to actually find out what they are. :dunno:

Just to throw a wrench into the case, Duncan has been using slotted head pickup screws for decades on many of their designs (cos, they look vintage). So I'm going to say they are Duncans, without a doubt.
 

Texsunburst59

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There has been far more time wasted typing up these posts speculating what they are, than it would take to actually find out what they are. :dunno:

Just to throw a wrench into the case, Duncan has been using slotted head pickup screws for decades on many of their designs (cos, they look vintage). So I'm going to say they are Duncans, without a doubt.

You called it and they are SD's., but they're late 80's SD's which I'm very happy about.

It would have been great had they'd been 60's or 70's Gibson T-tops, or even early 90's Gibson Classic 57's, but I'm just happy they're good quality USA humbuckers.

Now I don't have to put any money into upgrading pickups if they were the original Korean HBR's, which are known to be very muddy sounding.

So the neck SD is a Jazz Neck labeled JNJ, and the last letter is the initial of the lady who wound the pickup. ( Maricela Juarez) I learned all this on the SD forum.



The bridge SD pickup is a JB, which to some they're know as Jeff Beck or Jazz Blues, and is labeled JBL.
The last letter L stands for Leesona, which is the brand name of vintage 50's pickup winder Seymour bought from Gibson when they moved. (also learned this on the SD forum)

 

ARandall

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L is the initial of the winder who manned the station whilst they were being wound, not the type of machine they were wound on.
For example, if the last letter is J, then Maricella Juarez (not sure on spelling!!) was the winder on duty that day.
 

Texsunburst59

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L is the initial of the winder who manned the station whilst they were being wound, not the type of machine they were wound on.
For example, if the last letter is J, then Maricella Juarez (not sure on spelling!!) was the winder on duty that day.

I looked on the Seymour Duncan forum for a definitive answer and some said the L stood for Lydia Daniels, but a lot of guys said that wasn't correct.

Several guys said in that thread that Lydia Daniels used her last name initial when she had to initial pickups she wound.

Some guy showed an older JB HB'r with a tag that showe JB-D for Daniels as his evidence.

I'm not an authority, so who knows, and I guess it doesn't matter who wound them or initialed them.

I know they're awesome sounding late 80's SD humbuckers.
 

ARandall

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The thing with the initials is its like actor's equity, they try to only have 1 person with the that initial. And it really wasn't that important as it was just a batch thing for internal QC if things went wrong.........until some people tried to sell their pickups at inflated prices later on if their last digit was a J....MJ being of course later promoted to manager of the Custom Shop and supposedly her pickups were infused with some extra fairy tone dust.
Of course its irrelevant who it is, as the pickups are machine wound to a set pattern and fully automated - the human element is merely loading the start wire onto the bobbin then clipping it off at the other end. But mystique goes hand in hand with this industry, and thats the Duncan part in it.
The real point here being the 3rd digit always refers to a person, not the machine......its an FYI type thing.
 

Texsunburst59

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The thing with the initials is its like actor's equity, they try to only have 1 person with the that initial. And it really wasn't that important as it was just a batch thing for internal QC if things went wrong.........until some people tried to sell their pickups at inflated prices later on if their last digit was a J....MJ being of course later promoted to manager of the Custom Shop and supposedly her pickups were infused with some extra fairy tone dust.
Of course its irrelevant who it is, as the pickups are machine wound to a set pattern and fully automated - the human element is merely loading the start wire onto the bobbin then clipping it off at the other end. But mystique goes hand in hand with this industry, and thats the Duncan part in it.
The real point here being the 3rd digit always refers to a person, not the machine......its an FYI type thing.
Makes sense since JNJ intials are for Jazz, Neck, Juarez(Maricela Juarez)

When I saw the thread on the SD forum, it didn't make sense when one of the guys swore that the letter L stood for the Leesona pickup winder machine, and the L didn't stand for Lydia Daniels.

It didn't make sense that Lydia would use the 1st initial in her name instead of the last name initial like all the other pickup winders.

So who really knows who the L pickup winder is, and again it really means nothing to me anyway.

Thanks for the clarification on all this anyway.
 


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