Need help to identify a "T-Top" (?) 1971 pickup

j0k3335

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Hi guys ;)

I bought this pickup as a "1971 T-Top" and I receive this:

What do you think ? for me ... it's a fake: the "T" , the orifices with particular marks are missing, the plastic of the bobins seems cheap

The base plate with the label seems, at first , correct. The seller even said that the solder are original and that this pickup was never been open !!!

I'm wrong or not.

Or the guy had an out of order T-Top, use this "correct" (?) base plate with the label and put some cheap bobins on it , to build this pickups ???

Thanks a lot for your help : it really important for me to have comments from specialists !

fake1.jpg
fak2.jpg
 

Mr French

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I'm no expert but that solder looks sort of newish and too much for what Gibson would of used. I think the conductor should be braided but again I'm no expert.
 

cooljuk

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It's very obviously not factory solder, in your photo, to someone who has seen a few vintage pickups. It's not even a half-hearted attempt by someone with a little skill at trying to clean it up and make it look original. It's a mess.

When you buy vintage pickups, you really have to do your homework and know what you are buying, without having to rely on sellers' descriptions. Too many sellers / players are misinformed and ignorant about the truth of vintage pickups that they just repeat false information they read or assumed, even if they intend to be honest (which is not always the case, unfortunately)

To me, it looks like someone sanded the T and other markings off the bobbins.

I bet someone thought they were going to be real slick and sell it as a PAF-bobbin humbucker to a fool, until they realized PAF bobbins have coil windows in the top. Maybe they did try to sell it as one and got an earful from potential buyers and had to change course. It's lie, whatever the background is.

You bought a boomerang. Send it flying right back where it came from. Buyer beware.
 

AJK1

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It always baffles me why people ask questions after they buy, not before
 

j0k3335

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It's very obviously not factory solder, in your photo, to someone who has seen a few vintage pickups. It's not even a half-hearted attempt by someone with a little skill at trying to clean it up and make it look original. It's a mess.

When you buy vintage pickups, you really have to do your homework and know what you are buying, without having to rely on sellers' descriptions. Too many sellers / players are misinformed and ignorant about the truth of vintage pickups that they just repeat false information they read or assumed, even if they intend to be honest (which is not always the case, unfortunately)

To me, it looks like someone sanded the T and other markings off the bobbins.

I bet someone thought they were going to be real slick and sell it as a PAF-bobbin humbucker to a fool, until they realized PAF bobbins have coil windows in the top. Maybe they did try to sell it as one and got an earful from potential buyers and had to change course. It's lie, whatever the background is.

You bought a boomerang. Send it flying right back where it came from. Buyer beware.
very interesting point of view: thanks a lot for these informations. We both agree about the solder, but i'ts a new track about "someone send the T and other marking ..." .
Thanks ;)
 

j0k3335

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... it's obviously far from being stupid as a remark, I admit it! But, in the announcement, the pickup was with its cover and SO, I could not expect to find these bobbins without "T" and therefore ask the question.
Otherwise, I would have done it and I won't be in this ugly enough situation!
So thanks for your advice ... for the future .
 

Nick-O

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sorry that you got jipped....it happens to the best of us.

learn from it, ask before you buy, and remember something very important...just because something is old doesn't mean its better....if you were playing in the 70s, much of that stuff was crap from the get go.

lots of honest pickup winders out there, hope you find what you're after.
 

j0k3335

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sorry that you got jipped....it happens to the best of us.

learn from it, ask before you buy, and remember something very important...just because something is old doesn't mean its better....if you were playing in the 70s, much of that stuff was crap from the get go.

lots of honest pickup winders out there, hope you find what you're after.
I agree with a part of your answer;
. Yes ... I got jipped ... :(
. and yes I had better to ask before I buy

for the second part: I have tried and used several "Boutique pickups": and YES some are really good.
Throbak, Wolfetone, ... but specially Jim Wagner for example ( with his Crossroad, Darkburst or Godwood).
BUT ... a Patent Label T-Top has his special sound ! I had on a past a 1971 ES335 that I 've to sold
for money reason, and it was a dream. I even use a 1971 T-Top set on another hollowbody and it was top again: so it was the reason, that I wish to try again !
... bad luck :(
Thanks for your advices anyway ;)
 

AS193

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Hi guys ;)

I bought this pickup as a "1971 T-Top" and I receive this:

What do you think ? for me ... it's a fake: the "T" , the orifices with particular marks are missing, the plastic of the bobins seems cheap

The base plate with the label seems, at first , correct. The seller even said that the solder are original and that this pickup was never been open !!!

I'm wrong or not.

Or the guy had an out of order T-Top, use this "correct" (?) base plate with the label and put some cheap bobins on it , to build this pickups ???

Thanks a lot for your help : it really important for me to have comments from specialists !

View attachment 666064 View attachment 666065
 

j0k3335

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Get your money back.
... that's I will try to do and the reason that I need advice from musicians like you who can help me to BE SURE this is a fake, not at all a 1971 T-TOP !
Thanks for this advice anyway :)
 

dasherf17

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I agree with a part of your answer;
. Yes ... I got jipped ... :(
. and yes I had better to ask before I buy

for the second part: I have tried and used several "Boutique pickups": and YES some are really good.
Throbak, Wolfetone, ... but specially Jim Wagner for example ( with his Crossroad, Darkburst or Godwood).
BUT ... a Patent Label T-Top has his special sound ! I had on a past a 1971 ES335 that I 've to sold
for money reason, and it was a dream. I even use a 1971 T-Top set on another hollowbody and it was top again: so it was the reason, that I wish to try again !
... bad luck :(
Thanks for your advices anyway ;)
jok, in the interim (if you can't return it), try putting this "monstrosity" in to hear what you have...take a reading to see if it works, before, of course...
I got a "care package" from a guy on Reverb for $100, talking him down to $50...a hodge-podge of parts, pickups pots, 2 necks, a "some-kind-of"-body (the wood parts require wood filler and "try-it-again")...
The 2 humbuckers went into an LP carcass and it sounds pretty good.
Bottom line, you may be surprised...
 

j0k3335

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jok, in the interim (if you can't return it), try putting this "monstrosity" in to hear what you have...take a reading to see if it works, before, of course...
I got a "care package" from a guy on Reverb for $100, talking him down to $50...a hodge-podge of parts, pickups pots, 2 necks, a "some-kind-of"-body (the wood parts require wood filler and "try-it-again")...
The 2 humbuckers went into an LP carcass and it sounds pretty good.
Bottom line, you may be surprised...
I understand your point of view ... but we are talking of a 500$ pickup :( ... so for this price,
I wish a real one EVEN if this one doesn't sound too bad !!! ( it read 7K7 on my meter)
Sure, you understand me ;) !!!!
 

dasherf17

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I understand your point of view ... but we are talking of a 500$ pickup :( ... so for this price,
I wish a real one EVEN if this one doesn't sound too bad !!! ( it read 7K7 on my meter)
Sure, you understand me ;) !!!!
Absolutely (I haven't been checking prices lately)...I DO understand the budget.
So sorry...that IS a lot to play with...
It's interesting that when Gibson changed from the PAF to the T-Top in the '70s they weren't in favor at all...all these years later...well, you know...
Let us know your situation, jok!
 

j0k3335

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Absolutely (I haven't been checking prices lately)...I DO understand the budget.
So sorry...that IS a lot to play with...
It's interesting that when Gibson changed from the PAF to the T-Top in the '70s they weren't in favor at all...all these years later...well, you know...
Let us know your situation, jok!
Thanks for your support ! ... I'll keep you inform ;)
 

cooljuk

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... that's I will try to do and the reason that I need advice from musicians like you who can help me to BE SURE this is a fake, not at all a 1971 T-TOP !
Thanks for this advice anyway :)

Well, it’s not a fake, so I wouldn’t take that angle, when asking for a refund.

If you were told it was original, solder and all, that’s where the lie was.

As the pickup has clearly been messed with, inside and out, I’ll welcome you to post some photos of the undersides of the bobbins, the keeper bar, the magnet, and the tape on the sides of the coils from all sides. With that, we can begin to touch on how original the pickup is, aside from the removed branding on the tops of the bobbins. …that is, if you don’t end up just sending it back, of course.
 

j0k3335

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Well, it’s not a fake, so I wouldn’t take that angle, when asking for a refund.

If you were told it was original, solder and all, that’s where the lie was.

As the pickup has clearly been messed with, inside and out, I’ll welcome you to post some photos of the undersides of the bobbins, the keeper bar, the magnet, and the tape on the sides of the coils from all sides. With that, we can begin to touch on how original the pickup is, aside from the removed branding on the tops of the bobbins. …that is, if you don’t end up just sending it back, of course.
the seller has already caused me a scandal because I opened the cover and thus devalued this pickup by desoldering the "original solders" (!) : so I can hardly take the risk of dismantling it further! There, if it is visible, it is certain that he will have an argument for a categorical refusal to send it back, saying that it was ME who "modified / tinkered" it!
I'll try to take pictures as close as possible to the magnet, bobbins,... but I won't take the risk of going any further.
...sorry, because INDEED that's how it should be done: inspect it even more / a little deeper!

Thanks anyway ;)
 

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